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ginamr wrote:TRIPanother thing that could have been fixed: don't just resort to sex to express her feelings. tell him with a touch or a look or a few simple words how she feels before she f**ks him stupid. have a genuine conversation about what he means to her before she shags his brains out.

that was awesome.

Perhaps she fell into a problem many human women find themselves in. Went into the situation with one set of emotions and came out with another.

Silverbullet wrote:One of the problems withEnterprise was that damned Interruption. How many times was T-Pol and Trip going to have some serious talk when Archer calls T-POl. Too many.

Perhaps he had his reasons for interrupting them. C**k blocking is an art.

Yes, but Archer didn't know tht TnT were going to have a nice discovery conversation that may have ironed out some misunderstandings. I could undertand it if Archer thought he was screwing with TnT getting it on to block Trips chance of a little Vulcan Nookie.

Silverbullet wrote:Yes, but Archer didn't know tht TnT were going to have a nice discovery conversation that may have ironed out some misunderstandings. I could undertand it if Archer thought he was screwing with TnT getting it on to block Trips chance of a little Vulcan Nookie.

Actually, I was just joking. I didn't see a problem with Archer's interruptions because I saw it as a captain that relied heavily on his first officer (a very needy captain). I did have a problem with the whitespace interruption because my first thought was why was Trip daydreaming on the job? Not very Trip-like. Now, alone in his quarters...

All of this makes complete sense if Trip and T'Pol are real people.

On a TV show, it doesn't make sense at all. Conflict and suspense are our friends.

Alelou, great point. Nobody wants to see a "real" relationship. Boring.

But, I will say that we did miss out on seeing something unusual - which was the first interspecies relationship - something that had unusual, built-in conflict. Instead, we got a more standard form of miscommunication. Although, I do think that T'Pol's Vulcan-ness informed her behavior in The Expanse - she had a great excuse for reacting to her own emotions in a way that was immature - she was not used to experiencing them.

I'm just still bummed (as we all are) we didn't get to see TnT's relationship progress to the point that they would have to deal with the crew, Earth and Vulcan's reactions to their relationship and how those reactions affected them. Now, that's conflict that would have been interesting. This point has been made before by many, but it bears repeating. It's also why I like hanging around here.

dor what it's I agree with Transwarp about T'Pol not being impared as much as some folks make her out to be at Azati Prime.

When it comes like not acting like adults, Trip's comment "I'm sick and tired of this bond we've got," and T'Pol's response of "I'm not too fond of it either," takes the cake. Haven't these two spoken AT ALL over the past few weeks? Aren't they trying to work this out and come to an understanding? Actually, I think it was just bad writing and laziness. The knew at that point that the series was done for and maybe they wanted to throw in SOME conflict to set us up for "the_abomination," I don't know, but it sounbds juvenille to me.

Alelou wrote:All of this makes complete sense if Trip and T'Pol are real people.

On a TV show, it doesn't make sense at all. Conflict and suspense are our friends.

The problem is that shows, especially Star Trek shows, have trouble writing couples. They become lame characters just because they enter an exclusive relationship or (God forbid) marry. Examples I like to use are the O'Briens of DS9 and B'Elanna/Tom of Voy. If there was a yawning smilie I'd use it here. It doesn't necessarily have to be this way but then that just shows a lack of creativity.

So writers go out of their way to keep characters from getting together. Sometimes the circumstances are perfectly reasonable but then you have the times when you wonder if they even understand the characters they're writing about.

Aikiweezie, I actually thought that fit perfectly at the time they said it. The problem was that there were no more episodes to show more depth to it. At that time, Trip was feeling MANY things that he didn't like and someone had access to them with no way to stop it. T'Pol was probably irritated by sensing his doubt that she told him the truth. We humans may know something could not be true but doubt always has a way of creeping in. just my take.

I like Terra Prime as an episode, but I've always figured that it was written (along with Bound and Demons) to get TnT together for the 5th season - but then the poor writers got at look at *the_abomination* 's horror of script and went back to add conflict to somehow explain how after that episode they would break up.

But then again, I refuse to believe that Terra Prime isn't the last episode.

honeybee wrote:I like Terra Prime as an episode, but I've always figured that it was written (along with Bound and Demons) to get TnT together for the 5th season - but then the poor writers got at look at *the_abomination* 's horror of script and went back to add conflict to somehow explain how after that episode they would break up.

But then again, I refuse to believe that Terra Prime isn't the last episode.

Actually, it isn't. But we didn't see on the show the real episodes which should have followed. The well-known problems which the show had, compelled the authors to stop it and they wrote that horrendous "Abomination".
But I remember that there was a thread where someone (I am unable to remember who he/she was) displayed some scenes, that we never saw and never will see, involving Trip and T'Pol TOGETHER.

Demons and Terra Prime. I have viewed these two Episodes a great number of times. One thing is clear. Trip and T-Pol had an ongoing intimate relationship. She says "I have never been Pregant." Since they are talking about a child of theirs she would not be saying I have never been Pregnant by any male. Also, if the only time they had Sex was wheh she Seduced him in the expanse, she probably would have said "I did not get Pregnant that time we had Sex in the Expanse. So never been Pregnant sugggest many intimate couplings. Phlox also seems to confirm that when he says that T-Pol had never been Pregnant and says that Trip woud have known if she had ever got pregnant. Also Trip wold have known if T-Pol had embryo removed. Trip agrees.

Given that the bond must have been active for Trip to have been able to tell if T-Pol had ever been Pregnant. Why did he have to even ask her. If T-Pol had become Pregnat from that one Sexual encounter in the Expanse the baby would have been older than six months and hiow in Hell would she have been able to hide it as the Enterprise was always in space in the Expanse.

Writers on one hand seemed to indicate TnT had been having an intimate affair from sometime after bound. Yet they have T-Pol saying to Trip she had never been Pregnant and Phlox saying that Trip would have known if she had been pregnant. Inconsistent. Why would they be sick of the bond.

Actually, it isn't.

Joke. I was making a joke.

I know. But what I wrote is true. The REAL show should have been totally different from what we saw on the screen. Really there are scenes, which weren't able to go to the screen, where Trip and T'Pol were a veritable couple.

Honeybee, I agree that Terra Prime is the Lat true Episode that was shown. ASSO may be right. Perhaps there wer some scene sshot that were not shown (and should have been) In my mind I believe the taking of Trips hand by T-Pol was her ackowledgement that their future was together. In Terra Prime she accepted that Trip was the "Father" of the Cloned Baby and she was the Mother indicating she also accepted that they were a couple.

It was interesting that in the one scene Tnt are shown sitting side by side.

Just read through this very interesting thread. To answer the first question: I agree with a rewrite of Bound. The scene with the kiss have some good points, but it leaves to many questions. I liked that Trip took control of the situation, but his remarks are too vague. This was his chance to have a real good conversation with T'Pol about their relationship.

Second scene is the scene when T'Pol says she is going to study the Kir'shara. Trip seems to already by convinced she is going to end their relationship - and leaves it with that. He makes a silly joke to hide his hurt. I would have loved that Trip is going to argue with T'Pol and - even when it ends - makes it clear he doesn't like it. He is sending some mixed messages to our Vulcan girl.

As for Harbinger: I always noticed that people say that T'Pol calls Trip a lab rat or uses the term exploration. She doesn't. She says so in the scene ("I didn't say that".) She puts distance between them by resorting to scientific talk, but Trip is the one who uses words like "exploration" and "lab rat". [ducks and run...]

Final thoughts: in the thread it was mentioned that T'Pol doesn't show emotions, for example when Trip is in a coma. She does. She puts her hand on his stomach in a tender way, her voice cracks up a bit when she asked Archer to inform her when Commander Tucker is awake.
I am repeated myself, but I truly believe, if you want to know what T'Pol feels, look at her body language. This is all is her body language. And in her eyes. I always think that if you want to know what people in certain Asian cultures think: look in the eyes. The same counts for T'Pol.

panyasan wrote:Final thoughts: in the thread it was mentioned that T'Pol doesn't show emotions, for example when Trip is in a coma. She does. She puts her hand on his stomach in a tender way, her voice cracks up a bit when she asked Archer to inform her when Commander Tucker is awake.
I am repeated myself, but I truly believe, if you want to know what T'Pol feels, look at her body language. This is all is her body language. And in her eyes. I always think that if you want to know what people in certain Asian cultures think: look in the eyes. The same counts for T'Pol.

Perfect.