Vulcan Arc

[Brandyjane]

5) By his nature, Trip may be a bit pathological in the willing-to-take-shit department.

He took what she'd done to him remarkably (and unrealistically) easy. I don't know, am I the only one who would have expected both of them to be seriously affected by it? He just seemed to shrug it off, which is unrealistic. Everything after "Home" is giving me rabies. Manny Coto wrote some great episodes, like the Babel arc, but the TnT relationship and it's depiction was just shy of character assasination.

Not saying I don't agree that the TnT relationship was handled badly and the forced angst was over the top but I never thought he shrugged anything off. He buried his feelings just like he always did. He loved her and was trying to be understanding. He even told her he was proud of what she did. And he'd already said he didn't want to make it any harder for her. Doesn't mean it didn't affect him but he just kept it private and tried to maintain some connection to her. Also if the bond had already begun to form there may have been some influence on his thought and feelings there. Just because we didn't see his heartache on the screen there were indications that he was deeply affected.

I don't think he shrugged of T'Pol's actions, either. Trip is such an interesting character because initially it seems like he wears his emotions on his sleeve. He's the guy who seems to know everything about everyone else, who gives friendly pats on the back and hugs. And he certainly makes sure everyone knows when he's feeling cranky!

However, when things start getting deep, he doesn't let a lot show. His relationship with T'Pol isn't the only place this comes out. Malcolm, of all people, gets all emotional in "Shuttlepod One," while Trip tries his best to act like everything's okay. (I'm writing a couple of things right now that explore that seeming contradiction.)

I think he was doing his best to pretend like he was cool with everything in order to protect himself emotionally. He was trying to walk a fine line between letting her know he would always be there for her as a friend, and, after he finds out about the divorce, preserve the possibility for more.

I can't remember which episode it was, but there's one scene where after he almost died of radiation poisoning, he asks her if she ever had a moment like that when she was certain she was going to die, and if so, what she thought about. She said she thought about some scientific thing or another. I wanted to strangle her (or the writer)! He was almost ready to lay it all out there, and she had to have known it. That was the only time when I thought she appeared cruel.

[Silverbullet]

One thing. when the old T'Pol talked to the young one, why didn't she tell the young T'Pol about the Bond? Obviously if she had married her Trip and had been intimate with him for over 14 years the bond would have been a part of thier relationship. She tells the Young T'Pol that Trip can help her but doesn't say that the Young one has formed a Bond with her Trip. Since the Old t'Pol Enterprise would have gone through what the Young T'Pol's Enterprise did before entering the worm hole both the old and young T'Pol would have seduced Trip and shot him down the next morning, had the same erotic dream of being in the shower with him. That being the case the Old T'Pol would know the Young one was lying when she said that her Heart didn't know what it wanted. She could have told the young T'Pol that a Bond had formed that would bind them for life. But she didn't say a word about it. Strange.

[Asso]

Before Home.
There Are Moments...

[aadarshinah]

She could have told the young T'Pol that a Bond had formed that would bind them for life. But she didn't say a word about it. Strange.

Maybe the bond hadn't formed between them yet. Or maybe old T'Pol thought young T'Pol wouldn't believe her. Or maybe old T'Pol didn't want young T'Pol to feel presured by knolwedge of the bond into a relationship with Trip amd wanted the bond to grow naturally.

[Silverbullet]

WHY? If the old t'Pol hd lived the same life as the young one until her Enterprise (the Generational one)entered the wrom hole she wold know exctly what the young one had gone through and felt. she would know why the young one Seduced her Trip because the old one would have done the same with her Trip. She would tell the young T'Pol about the Bond to help her come to terms with her feelings knowing that she and her Trip were bound for life by the bond she probably thought was an impsibility. Why would she believe the Old T'Pol would lie to her? The old T'Pol had nothing to gain by lying. By telling the Young T'Pol about the bond it would reinforce what she said about Trip being able to help the young one.

[Brandyjane]

Why didn't Old T'Pol mention the bond? Because the writers hadn't thought of it yet.

And that's why, even though I consider the third and fourth seasons of Enterprise to be the best Trek ever, I'm really only inspired by the potential relationship we were given in the first season.

[pdsldl]

E2 T'Pol was trapped pre Kir'Shara and would have less knowledge of what RU T'Pol said was basically only myth or wives tale to her people regarding bonds. Their taboo topics were still taboo and I thought E2 T'Pol telling her younger self that Trip could help her was a lot for a Vulcan to admit even to a younger version of herself. E@ T'Pol knew what she was like before they thrown back so may have been cautious about what she told RU T'Pol so as not to mess up anything to badly.

And Brandyjane is probably right they didn't storyboard far enough out with any of the plot lines that carried through.

[Brandyjane]

E2 T'Pol was trapped pre Kir'Shara and would have less knowledge of what RU T'Pol said was basically only myth or wives tale to her people regarding bonds. Their taboo topics were still taboo and I thought E2 T'Pol telling her younger self that Trip could help her was a lot for a Vulcan to admit even to a younger version of herself. E@ T'Pol knew what she was like before they thrown back so may have been cautious about what she told RU T'Pol so as not to mess up anything to badly.

I didn't consider that. That explanation might at least help fan fiction writers make sense of it. I would think, however, that old wives' tales or not, E2 Trip would have realized something was unusual about his marriage. But then if he'd never left Enterprise, there might not have been the weirdness in T'Pol's white space, so maybe not.

[honeybee]

I like the old wives tale explanation, since I've always been frustrated by the fact that no one noticed the bond during Home. You'd think they'd check for that before weddings, even if it was kind of like a "speak now ritual" where no one expected an unexpected bond to show up. But if the bond was a myth prior to The Vulcan Arc, well then.

Like you, BrandyJane, I think the real explanation is that the writers hadn't thought of the bond yet.

In writing Ember, Spark, Flame - my post Terra Prime story - I just have the two of them a bundle of regrets. It's all could've, should've would've. In Family Secrets, I made it clear that it was finally the grief over Baby Elizabeth that brought them together. I said that in human relationships, the death of a child would often tear a couple apart. With bonded Vulcans, the opposite happens. So - that gives everyone a little preview of where that story is going.

[WarpGirl]

Considering the fact that the Vulcan High Command had corrupted Vulcan culture and Surak's teachings for generations (in human terms) it's possible that T'Pol's generation weren't even mentally bonded to their betrothed, like Spock was. If they got rid of that tradition then its reasonable to assume that mating or marriage bonds were considered taboo subjects. Rather like mind-melds were considered devient behavior.

So why should people check for a previous bond in Home? Why should T'Pol2 tell T'Pol about the mating bonds?

Besides IMHO T'Pol 2 was even more stupid than T'Pol 1 when it came to relationships. More selfish too.

Brandyjane your assesment of Trip's personality was incredibly accurate. Bravo!

[Brandyjane]

In writing Ember, Spark, Flame - my post Terra Prime story - I just have the two of them a bundle of regrets. It's all could've, should've would've. In Family Secrets, I made it clear that it was finally the grief over Baby Elizabeth that brought them together. I said that in human relationships, the death of a child would often tear a couple apart. With bonded Vulcans, the opposite happens. So - that gives everyone a little preview of where that story is going.

Well, I for one am really looking forward to reading more of it. Family Secrets is one of my all-time favorite Ent stories.

Considering the fact that the Vulcan High Command had corrupted Vulcan culture and Surak's teachings for generations (in human terms) it's possible that T'Pol's generation weren't even mentally bonded to their betrothed, like Spock was. If they got rid of that tradition then its reasonable to assume that mating or marriage bonds were considered taboo subjects. Rather like mind-melds were considered devient behavior.

I wonder how long it had been that mind melds, mating bonds, etc. were considered deviant/taboo/myth. During that period, how many Vulcan couples ended up forming a mating bond and not speaking of it, how many just had marriages of convenience/family honor/obligation, and how many had really awful, hurtful marriages? I don't necessarily want to open up the whole pon farr can of worms again, but does the lack of a bond between betrothed or married couples make it harder, easier, or no difference?

Brandyjane your assesment of Trip's personality was incredibly accurate. Bravo!

Thanks!

[aadarshinah]

I don't necessarily want to open up the whole pon farr can of worms again, but does the lack of a bond between betrothed or married couples make it harder, easier, or no difference?

In Spock's time, it seemed like the bond did nothing emotionally for either party - so I guess it makes no difference. You're still getting married to someone you don't really know and, while arranged marriages can and do work out, I imagine the bond doesn't really help much in that regards beyond reassuring you that your mate is committed to you. Which, if you're a Vulcan who believes in monogamy, probably wasn't a problem to begin with.

[pdsldl]

I don't necessarily want to open up the whole pon farr can of worms again, but does the lack of a bond between betrothed or married couples make it harder, easier, or no difference?

In Spock's time, it seemed like the bond did nothing emotionally for either party - so I guess it makes no difference. You're still getting married to someone you don't really know and, while arranged marriages can and do work out, I imagine the bond doesn't really help much in that regards beyond reassuring you that your mate is committed to you. Which, if you're a Vulcan who believes in monogamy, probably wasn't a problem to begin with.

But couples were together for a year after marriage. I would guess to let the connection between them strengthen. I always thought the bond was what the mates made of it. T'Les said she and T'Pol's father formed a strong connection after they married so something must happen but they just didn't talk about it. They seem to know but not know about bonds. But the way they wrote the show that it's left wide open and some facts seem to be contradictory.

[honeybee]

Well, I for one am really looking forward to reading more of it. Family Secrets is one of my all-time favorite Ent stories.

Thanks!

In Spock's time, it seemed like the bond did nothing emotionally for either party - so I guess it makes no difference. You're still getting married to someone you don't really know and, while arranged marriages can and do work out, I imagine the bond doesn't really help much in that regards beyond reassuring you that your mate is committed to you. Which, if you're a Vulcan who believes in monogamy, probably wasn't a problem to begin with.

It seems to be established fanon, that the bond that TnT have is markedly different from the one that T'Pring & Spock have. Think betrothal bond for S&T versus an actual, consensual and deepening mate bond for TnT.

Prior to The Vulcan Arc, perhaps betrothal bonds were not used. T'Pol doesn't seem to have one with Koss. And she is genuinely shocked by having bonded with Trip, leading me to believe that mate bonds likely formed without most Vulcan couples being told of their existence. It was probably spoken about in whispers, just as T'Pol had heard rumors.

Meanwhile, in Spock & T'Pring's time, they were bonded together as children. Sure, they may have consented but it was hardly informed consent or based on personal desire. The one between TnT seemed to derive from their feelings for each other in addition to their physical relationship. There's obviously no physical relationship between T'Pring & Spock when they are seven. So:

1) The Syrranites learn to force, manipulate the natural kind of matebond between TnT onto kids. A little creepy, that, and without the consent, it seems that it would be possible to fall in love with another person. Whereas TnTs bond seemed to bind them together in a very significant way.
2) The Syrranties developed a separate, betrothal bond that would allow for a person to sense when their finance went into Pon Farr, as in Amok Time. If it was separate, it would explain how T'Pring managed to fall so deeply in love with Stonn but still have a connection with Spock. She could have been bonded with both of them.

[pdsldl]

Or the difference is that T'Pol and Koss never faced Pon Farr like Spock and T'Pring as they're marriage was planned not just one where they were forced to seek each other out.