Did T'Pol NEED the Trellium D?

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

No, T'Pol certainly didn't need the Trell to hook up with or fall in love with Trip. That was just the lazy writers way of getting TnT together without doing it the real, hard way. It might have taken longer without it, but even that's not a given. It all depends on how you do it. Alas, TPTB thought up Trell-D and degraded T'Pol by turning her into a junkie.

I don't think the Trell made her fall in love. She fell in love with Trip all by herself, the Trell just made her express that in the way she did. Another bad thing about the Trell storyline is that it allowed the damn AinTers to claim that it was the Trell that made her love Trip, and thus it wasn't true love (like the one they say she had for Archer )

[Asso]

http://triptpolers.houseoftucker.com/fiction/author_aleda_gildeth_aftermath.shtml

[WarpGirl]

OK For some perspective lets look at the dates we have concrete dates on... ENT entered the Expanse on 4-24-2153. Now they do give a little perspective throughout the season because they talk about weeks and months between going out there. They get home approximently 2-14-2154, now that's taking in account the time travel. So basically that's 10 months and change. Frankly I think that the only logical answer is that T'Pol was hooked by Harbinger. It's the only thing that makes sense given her behavior before and after.

Now that I rushed to give a little perspective. Let's see more opinions on whether she needed the stuff.

Whoa! KTR you so rock!

Asso I think I get it now.

[Aikiweezie]

OK For some perspective lets look at the dates we have concrete dates on... ENT entered the Expanse on 4-24-2153. Now they do give a little perspective throughout the season because they talk about weeks and months between going out there. They get home approximently 2-14-2154, now that's taking in account the time travel. So basically that's 10 months and change. Frankly I think that the only logical answer is that T'Pol was hooked by Harbinger. It's the only thing that makes sense given her behavior before and after.

Now that I rushed to give a little perspective. Let's see more opinions on whether she needed the stuff.

Whoa! KTR you so rock!

I DON'T think the trellium D made T'Pol high, or impared, or stoned, OR that she only slept with Trip because she was on it. I believe what she said, it gave her access to emotions that were previously out of reach and that she wanted more. She WANTED more out her relationship than she could give him and the trellium made that easier. She LIKED that effect. I think Trip would understand that because I think he understands her pretty welll. There are several examples of his tolerance and patience with her. I don't think he'd go all bezerk and be a jerk about it and accuse her of sleeping with him only because of the trellium. Fan fics where that happens don't work for me. He knew her better than that. He had her pegged in E2.

[WarpGirl]

Aikiweezie Here's my problem with that theory. She was able to reach those emotions without the TD. She might not have stripped off her robe and jumped the guy, but she could have still persued the relationship. Vulcans can and do "access" their emotions to form relationships, look at Kirk and Spock.

And regards Asso's link, there is one flaw in that story. Just because T'Pol might not take TD every night doesn't mean she isn't affected by it. According to Phlox that stuff builds up over time and takes a while to leave the body. So even if she didn't take it that night it was still there.

[Pegmumm]

No, T'Pol certainly didn't need the Trell to hook up with or fall in love with Trip. That was just the lazy writers way of getting TnT together without doing it the real, hard way. It might have taken longer without it, but even that's not a given. It all depends on how you do it. Alas, TPTB thought up Trell-D and degraded T'Pol by turning her into a junkie.

I don't think the Trell made her fall in love. She fell in love with Trip all by herself.

I agree... it was a lazy writer's tool to degrade the character and her actions. Given her reaction when Trip turned up pregnant, then when he was caught with the Princess, I'd say she was jealous from the get go of any female providing intimacy.

Ehh... write it the way you want to.. you know you will. Just give yourself permission.
peg

[Asso]

WarpGirl, Can't you simply enjoy a story or not? Simply?

[WarpGirl]

Me? I already did, it's just I've been seeing a lot of stories lately that say the Trell-D opened up all of these doors for TnT. And I don't get it, T'Pol could access the emotions without it, the obsticals were cultural not mental.

Asso Did I say I didn't enjoy it? No I did not.

[Asso]

Yeah. You didn't.

[WarpGirl]

Thank you.

[pdsldl]

The TD took away a Vulcans control. Stripped it away. She knew that after seeing what it did to the crew of the Seleya and herself. Perhaps she thought she could inject small doses and still have some control but lessen it enough to make it easier to be what she perceived Trip needed or wanted but still give her the control to prevent her stronger negative emotions from getting the best of her. Remember how angry and out of control Tolaris got with Archer because he didn't meditate etc... per his Vulcan training. She feared letting her emotions for Trip have free reign and risk losing control over all her emotions. For someone whose emotions ran too close to the surface to begin with it must have been torture to be in love and want to let go but then be afraid of what would happen if you did. And I agree Trip may have been angry that she risked her health but he would have understood why she did it. There was too much between them for him to seriously think it was because she was in a drug induced state.

[WarpGirl]

Well to tell the truth the only thing I can come up with is that T'Pol might not believe that Trip would respond to her in control. Which makes me feel very bad for her.

[Alelou]

PHLOX: (after examining her) There's a good deal of residual trellium in your bloodstream. How long have you been doing this?
T'POL: Three months.
PHLOX: I need to know precisely what has been happening.
T'POL: When I was exposed to trellium aboard the Seleya, it affected me in a way that I wasn't prepared for.
PHLOX: As I recall, you were homicidal and paranoid.
T'POL: The initial effects were overwhelming, but as they began to wear off I discovered I was able to access certain emotions. I wanted more. I began to experiment by ingesting small amounts of trellium. I devised a way to inject it into my bloodstream.
PHLOX: You must have known it was dangerous. Trellium exposure is deadly to Vulcans. It eats away at the neural pathways.
T'POL: I thought, in small amounts, it would be safe. At first, I was able to control the new emotions. My interactions with the crew improved.
PHLOX: Commander Tucker, for example.

Thought I'd go back to the source. This certainly suggests a long period of addiction dating from her experience on the Seleya. And the thing about her "interactions with the crew" improving is intriguing here. Personally, though, I'm a little frustrated because to my mind we also saw her "interactions with the crew" (namely Tucker) improving almost from the moment neuropressure began. (Rajin, for example, occurs before Impulse and that features a very cozy conversation with romantic overtones.) The jealousy in Harbinger was also not that uncharacteristic of her either, even from Season 1. I wonder if they didn't actually hit on the idea of making T'Pol an addict until they actually got to Azati Prime. Does anyone know what the writers have said about this?

[pdsldl]

WG - Why would she think that? Trip responded to her and she knew that or TD or not she wouldn't have bothered to seduce him. What would be the point if she didn't think he had feelings for her? She needed to be in control but thought the TD would let her be in control more than she would be if she stopped meditating and still let her relax enough to express herself with Trip. I don't think it had anything to do with Trip in that she never had anything to go on as far as what he was willing to accept having never asked him or observed him in more than flirtatious episodes with women. After observing human woman (Cole and others) and how open they were with their emotions and Trip himself maybe thought she needed to be different to have a long term relationship with him.

And accessing these emotions is what I'm talking about. She felt them but then had to suppress them. The TD allowed her let herself experience them more fully until the addiction took over and perverted the whole experiment. Without knowledge of how much and how fast the affects would have become unmanageable we're can only speculate that it was less than the total immersion she experienced on Seleya and more than none at all.

[WarpGirl]

Alelou OK This was a long long time ago so I don't remember where I read it possibly when season three first aired, but what I read it was a toss up between Trip being an addict to something, or T'Pol. And it was decided T'Pol would be more believable. Yeah to tell the truth I would have believed Trip more. With his greving, but since he was Chief Engineer and a good ol boy they opted for T'Pol. What gets me is that word "Access" she already could "access" idiots!

pdlsdl I think we both just are not understanding where the other is coming from. To me Vulcans can access their emotions to form relationships. They don't need Trell-D to do it. So you saying that they were somehow beyond her reach confuses me. She could express herself just fine to Trip before hand. She was doing fine before the Seleya.