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Distracted
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Postby Distracted » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:54 am

Heh. What a terribly interesting thread topic, CX!

Here's my two cents.

Circumcision is a surgical procedure that is done primarily for cosmetic or religious reasons, in the same way that some cultures pierce an infant girl's ears. It certainly CAN be done under penile block anesthesia, even in a newborn, but often isn't because... well... allergic reactions to anesthesia are possible, and the little buggers scream non-stop anyway just because they make 'em fast for a couple of hours beforehand so they don't throw up and choke, and they REALLY hate being strapped down into the circumcision board. Believe me. I've done the procedure hundreds of times. Even if you numb them, they still scream bloody murder. The only literature I've seen on the subject is equivocal about any health benefit to the procedure. Last I saw, the only increased cancer risk is in males who fail to clean themselves properly, because debris which collects beneath the foreskin can conceivably cause chronic inflammation and thus cause skin cancer. Oh, and there's some questionable evidence that perhaps newborn boys who are circumcised MIGHT have a minutely reduced incidence of urinary tract infections. When you compare that to the discomfort and the risk of bleeding and infection, most authorities agree that the risks outweigh the benefits for strictly health reasons. That being said, I must admit that my son is circumcised. His father did the procedure. It's a cosmetic thing.

justTrip'n, I'm thrilled that you had good experiences with midwives. Most people who choose midwives do. The main problem I have with midwives is that here in the U.S. the delivery is usually done at home or in a birthing center without operative delivery capability or a trained surgeon on site. This, in my view, is asking for trouble. While the overwhelming majority of births go as planned without complications, and with good prenatal care many complications can be predicted, there is a tiny set of potential obstetrical complications which are completely unpredictable and which can result in the death of the mother and/or the baby within MINUTES. Some of them can be fatal even if the patient is in a hospital with operative capabilities at the moment they occur. These days, no one expects a fatality during a delivery. Two centuries ago, one in six women died in childbirth. Delivering a child at home is like playing Russian roulette with a 1,000 chamber revolver. The odds of a serious problem are miniscule, but when one happens, somebody usually dies. And that's my opinion on the matter. Cool
Last edited by Distracted on Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bether6074
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Postby Bether6074 » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:49 am

Our hospital did something a little different. My last baby was delivered by a midwife, but right in the hospital.

D, I just read in the paper last week about a recent study that showed a pretty significant difference in the cancer rates between uncircumcised and circumcised men. Something to do with the spreading of HPV. It also has supposedly been shown to slow the spread of HIV in Africa. My son was circumcised because we believed and were told that it was a health benefit. I suppose it depends on which study you believe. We most certainly did NOT do it for cosmetic reasons, though.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061213/hl_nm/aids_circumcision_dc

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CX
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Postby CX » Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:19 pm

Well, I guess I'm cut. The parents told me it was all the rage for supposedly being more sanitary and all, but I'm aware of this huge movement against it because of the reasons Dis cited.

Again, I was just curious how that made it into fan fiction, like whether it was just a personal preferance or not.

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Bether6074
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Postby Bether6074 » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:45 pm

Oh, don't mind me. I'm just out of sorts lately. RL issues. I'm sure parents only do what they think is right for their child. I just write Trip the way I know. Have no experience in the other direction.

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justTripn
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Postby justTripn » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:34 pm

Distracted and Bether are right. There is no reason we can't have it both ways. The midwives and midwife philosophy IN the hospital in case anything goes wrong. Sadly hospitals (at least 16 years ago when I had my twins) were unfamiliar with that whole women-in-charge of her own birth, minimal intervention type philosphy. The birth at the birthing center was this beautiful experience that I will remember for the rest of my life. The hospital birth, well . . . I got two healthy babies out of it, which is the most important thing. But they treated my like a PATIENT! As you might have guessed, I'm NOT!

When I went into labor I called the hospital and said. "My water broke." They said, "How do you know?" I said, "I know because my water broke. I've done this before." I thought that was the end of it. WRONG! They wouldn't let it go until they'd performed an invasive procedure to convince themselves of the obvious. It went downhill from there. But like I said. Two healthy babies.

Hopefully in the future we can have our cake and eat it too.

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Postby Elessar » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:21 pm

justTrip'n wrote:When I went into labor I called the hospital and said. "My water broke." They said, "How do you know?" I said, "I know because my water broke. I've done this before." I thought that was the end of it. WRONG! They wouldn't let it go until they'd performed an invasive procedure to convince themselves of the obvious. It went downhill from there. But like I said. Two healthy babies.

Hopefully in the future we can have our cake and eat it too.


I'm tempted to laugh at the last part because it sounds like the pregnancy equivalent of calling tech support because your new laptop's network card doesn't work and then having a guy tell you to defrag the hard drive Laughing . Ok, nerd joke, but that totally cracks ME up anyway. It sounds like they go through some kind of troubleshooting to figure out if you're really in labor, hehe.

I didn't really know what a midwife was, so I had to look it up. I really thought there WAS medical reason for circumcision, but apparently (if D says it's inconclusive) it's not much substance. In any case, my sons will be circumsized just.... cuz. Ew. Laughing

jk for anybody not Cool

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CX
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Postby CX » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:23 pm

Mine will too probably. Of course that's if I can find someone who'll put up with me first. Laughing

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Elessar
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Postby Elessar » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:33 pm

CX wrote:Mine will too probably. Of course that's if I can find someone who'll put up with me first. Laughing


Oh yeah... I gotta figure that out first too Laughing


In the words of Doc Brown, inventor of the time machine, "Now I shall spend my time studying the other great mystery of the Universe.... WOMEN."

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Bether6074
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Postby Bether6074 » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:30 am

I don't honestly think I remember what the rooms looked like while I was giving birth. All I remember is a lot of pain. I wasn't one for having my hand held or sucking on ice cubes. I do remember doing a lot of screaming, though. Rolling Eyes The midwife was there with me for a longer period of time than the doctors ever were, though, I will say that. When I was having my second child (9lbs, 2 oz), I do distinctly remember the doc coming in and remarking how big the baby's head was and then going out in the hallway and laughing while talking with someone. Such is life. He was a good doctor.

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chrisis1033
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Postby chrisis1033 » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:14 am

CX wrote:Mine will too probably. Of course that's if I can find someone who'll put up with me first. Laughing


Check the Mirror Universe... Cool
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Linda
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Postby Linda » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:08 pm

I do think it is difficult to go against a cultural norm. I only had a daughter, so the issue of circumcision did not come up. But when I saw my newborn grandson with a bandage on his tiny penis, I could have cried. It must HURT, not that he will remember. There are enough rites of passage for males, so why this too? If there really is no medical reason for circumcision, maybe it is time for a change in American culture.

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Bether6074
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Postby Bether6074 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:22 pm

I think the verdict is still out on the medical issue, Linda. Every doctor I talked to about it back in 1992, always told me it was a medically beneficial. I've seen enough of the numbers from the studies that I honestly believe that. The thinking seems to be changing now, apparently. Distracted is a good example of that. My doctors pretty much really stressed it as a medical necessity. I just trusted them.

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Kevin Thomas Riley
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Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:50 pm

^ Then why hasn't any European doctors insisted on this practice? I have had no problems and I know of no one else that has either because we aren't "snipped". There isn't even a debate about it on this side of the herring pond, amongst medical professionals or otherwise.
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CX
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Postby CX » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:21 pm

Europeans are just weird then. Razz

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Kevin Thomas Riley
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Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:35 pm

CX wrote:Europeans are just weird then. Razz

Quite the contrary, my young fellow. Since non-religious practices of circumcision is exclusively American, I'd say that it is you who are just weird! Razz
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