R/S: Why?

[WarpGirl]

Well technically if you follow 'canon' NOBODY does use the toilet only showers. Anyway I was going by 'canon' (dreadful word)

[Aquarius]

Meh. To me, she "canonically" never heard from the guy again if we're TOLD in an episode she never heard from the guy again. We never see that, so if, say, Enterprise were suddenly to start being made again (yeah THAT'LL happen), they have left themselves the wiggle-room to go back and readdress it...therefore WE have the wiggle room to address it however we want, imagine whatever we want to coming out of the situation. They never closed the door on it; they just didn't say anything one way or another.

[WarpGirl]

That doesn't mean that that's the definition of canon though. Ask George Lucas, he says Han didn't shoot first. Anyway back to Malcolm and Hoshi...

[Linda]

Here is a whole article about Star Trek canon as Wikipedia sees it. Enjoy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(Star_Trek)

Crap, there WAS a whole page there, but now it has disappeared. What's up with Wikipedia?

I still had the article open, so I have copied it in here:

Star Trek canon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Canon (Star Trek))
Jump to: navigation, search
The Star Trek canon is the set of all canonical material in the fictional Star Trek universe. It is usually defined as comprising the television series Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and the motion pictures in the franchise.[1] However, the official Star Trek website acknowledges that this definition is not set in stone, but that the notion of what constitutes canon in Star Trek is fluid, open to interpretation and debate.[1]

Contents [hide]
1 TV series
2 Movies
3 Publications
3.1 Fiction novels
3.2 Novelizations
3.3 Reference books
3.4 Other publications
4 Other material
4.1 Roddenberry-approved material
4.2 Klingon language
5 References
6 See also
7 External links


[edit] TV series
As a rule, all live action Star Trek TV series that aired are considered canon, while the cartoon Star Trek: The Animated Series and the planned but cancelled live action Star Trek: Phase II are not canon.[1] However, this policy does not make clear which version of the live action shows is the canon one. Indeed, there exist longer and shorter versions of several episodes. For example, in the 1960s during the original run of the Star Trek TV series (TOS), an hour-long show was actually 51 minutes excluding commercials, and modern DVD releases of TOS episodes are also 51 minutes long. However, as of 2007[update], an hour-long show on television is only about 42 minutes long. The canonicity of the missing nine minutes of material in modern airings of TOS episodes has never been addressed. Likewise, when special two-hour-long episodes are aired as two one-hour-long episodes in syndication, several minutes of material have to be cut to make time for the duplication of the opening and closing credits. The canonicity of this cut material has also never been addressed. Finally, the remastered TOS episodes released in 2006 present several visual differences from the episodes originally aired.[2] Once again, no official statements have been made regarding the question of which version of these episodes is canon.

To further complicate matters, it has been noted that Gene Roddenberry was something of a revisionist when it came to canon. People who worked with Roddenberry remember that he used to handle canon not on a series-by-series basis nor an episode-by-episode basis, but point by point. If he changed his mind on something, or if a fact in one episode contradicted what he considered to be a more important fact in another episode, he had no problem declaring that specific point non-canon.

See, people can easily catch us, and say "well, wait a minute, in 'Balance of Terror', they knew that the Romulans had a cloaking device, and then in 'The Enterprise Incident', they don't know anything about cloaking devices, but they're gonna steal this one because it's obviously just been developed, so how the hell do you explain that?" We can't. There are some things we just can't explain, especially when it comes from the third season. So, yes, third season is canon up to the point of contradiction, or where it's just so bad... you know, we kind of cringe when people ask us, "well, what happened in 'Plato's Stepchildren', and 'And the Children Shall Lead', and 'Spock's Brain', and so on — it's like, please, he wasn't even producing it at that point. But, generally, [canon is] the original series, not really the animated, the first movie to a certain extent, the rest of the films in certain aspects but not in all... I know that it's very difficult to understand. It literally is point by point. I sometimes do not know how he's going to answer a question when I go into his office, I really do not always know, and — and I know it better probably than anybody, what it is that Gene likes and doesn't like.[3]— Richard Arnold, 1991

Another thing that makes canon a little confusing. Gene R. himself had a habit of decanonizing things. He didn't like the way the animated series turned out, so he proclaimed that it was not canon. He also didn't like a lot of the movies. So he didn't much consider them canon either. And – okay, I'm really going to scare you with this one – after he got TNG going, he... well... he sort of decided that some of The Original Series wasn't canon either. I had a discussion with him once, where I cited a couple things that were very clearly canon in The Original Series, and he told me he didn't think that way anymore, and that he now thought of TNG as canon wherever there was conflict between the two. He admitted it was revisionist thinking, but so be it.[4]— Paula Block, 2005

Additionally, David Gerrold, in an interview about Star Trek: The Animated Series, commented on Roddenberry's parsimony and how it originally affected "canon":

Arguments about "canon" are silly. I always felt that Star Trek Animated was part of Star Trek because Gene Roddenberry accepted the paycheck for it and put his name on the credits. And DC Fontana -- and all the other writers involved -- busted their butts to make it the best Star Trek they could. But this whole business of "canon" really originated with Gene's errand boy. Gene liked giving people titles instead of raises, so the errand boy got named "archivist" and apparently it went to his head. Gene handed him the responsibility of answering all fan questions, silly or otherwise, and he apparently let that go to his head.[5]

Another factor that contributes to blur the line between canon and non-canon is the fact that some writers like to include elements from popular non-canon works into canon episodes.[6] Such is the case, for instance, of several concepts that first appeared in the Animated Series' episode "Yesteryear", including The Forge and the city of ShiKahr, and which were later included in the Enterprise three-part story that started with "The Forge".[7] However, despite the fact that elements borrowed from the Animated Series are considered canon, the series itself remains decidedly non-canon.[8]

One final issue comes from text that appears on props such as computer displays, but is not legible during the episode, except in modern HDTV broadcasts. The transcript of the text can often be obtained through behind-the-scenes pictures and interviews. This leads to the question of whether material that is in the episodes but cannot be seen clearly should be considered canon. Although there is no answer valid for all this material, some of it at least, such as the biographical information seen on a computer display in "In a Mirror, Darkly", has been clearly declared not to be "hard canon".[9]

[edit] Movies
As of 2009, all eleven live action Star Trek movies produced to that date are considered canon.[1] However, much like for TV series, this policy fails to note which version of the movies is canon. This leaves unknown the canonicity of scenes missing from the theatrical version of a movie but included in home releases or director's cuts. Such is the case, for instance, of a scene revealing that the character of Peter Preston was the nephew of Scotty in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.[10]

Adding confusion to the issue is the fact that Roddenberry is quoted as saying he didn't like the movies, and "didn't much consider them canon".[4] Unfortunately, there exists no definitive list of which movies in particular Roddenberry disliked, or what elements in them he didn't consider canon. For example, the reference book Star Trek Chronology states that Roddenberry considered elements of Star Trek V and Star Trek VI to be apocryphal, but it does not specify which particular elements in the movies Roddenberry objected to.[11]

The canonicity of extra features found on home DVD releases, such as deleted scenes, has never been explicitly addressed.

[edit] Publications
[edit] Fiction novels
Many of the original novels published by Pocket Books are not considered part of the canon.[1] This was a guideline set early on by Gene Roddenberry, and repeated many times by people who worked with him.

And as long as Gene Roddenberry is involved in it, he is the final word on what is Star Trek. So, for us here – Ron Moore, Jeri Taylor, everybody who works on the show – Gene is the authority. And when he says that the books, and the games, and the comics and everything else, are not gospel, but are only additional Star Trek based on his Star Trek but not part of the actual Star Trek universe that he created... they're just, you know, kinda fun to keep you occupied between episodes and between movies, whatever... but he does not want that to be considered to be sources of information for writers, working on this show, he doesn't want it to be considered part of the canon by anybody working on any other projects.[3]— Richard Arnold, 1991

However, even this rule is not without its exception. Two Voyager novels written by Jeri Taylor (co-creator and then producer of Voyager), Mosaic and Pathways, were written early on in Voyager's run and detailed the background of the show's main characters.[1] These were meant to be canon, and to be used as references by the show's writers when fleshing out the characters. These two novels are sometimes named as exceptions to the "no book is canon" rule.[12] However, as some of the background information mentioned in those books was never referenced in an episode of Voyager, their status as canon is still open to debate.[1]

[edit] Novelizations
The novelizations of episodes and movies are not considered canon. This is a tradition that goes back to Gene Roddenberry himself. Roddenberry wrote a novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, which included many tangents and new material that were not part of the movie, such as revealing that the woman who dies in the transporter accident was Kirk's lover.[13] While this novel filled in many gaps left in the movie, Roddenberry is quoted as saying it should not be considered canon.[14]

[edit] Reference books
A special case is made for "non-fiction" reference books such as The Star Trek Encyclopedia, Star Trek Chronology, TNG Technical Manual and DS9 Technical Manual. Unlike the novels and novelizations, these reference manuals have never been explicitly named as non-canon, and the fact that they were officially sanctioned by Paramount and given to episode writers as guides serves to give them an aura of credibility. Roddenberry himself considered it part of the "background" of Star Trek.[15] Meanwhile, Michael Okuda and Rick Sternbach, two art and technical consultants since Star Trek: The Next Generation and the authors of several of these reference books, considered their work "pretty official".[16] However, they stop short of naming the books canon, leaving the debate open.

Star Trek writer and co-producer Ronald D. Moore dismisses such official material as "speculation", and says that the writing staff did not consider it canon.[17][18] However, Viacom, the parent company of Paramount, seems to believe differently. In a series of posts to the official Star Trek website's forums, Viacom Senior Director Harry Lang left no doubt that he considers the reference books as canon.[12][19]

[edit] Other publications
The Star Trek comic books and Star Trek magazines are not considered canon.[1][3]

[edit] Other material
Nothing that takes place in Star Trek games, the Star Trek: The Experience attraction, Star Trek fan productions or Trekdom is considered canon.[1][3]

[edit] Roddenberry-approved material
Based on the amount of creative control Roddenberry exerted over the first seasons of Star Trek, some people argue that only Roddenberry-approved material should be considered canon.[20] Such an approach would eliminate from canon anything Roddenberry didn't like, as well as everything made after his death, including six movies and three TV series.

However, Roddenberry himself pre-emptively rebuked such an attitude. He had hoped that Star Trek would go on after his death.[21] As Star Trek was constantly improved by each following generation, he expected people to look back upon its humble beginnings as just that, the simple beginnings of something much bigger and better.[22] Roddenberry clearly never intended Star Trek to be limited to his work, but to include all the hopefully superior work of future generations.

[edit] Klingon language
The Klingon language was first conceived by James Doohan for the movie Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and consisted only of a few words. Later, Marc Okrand proceeded to flesh out the sparse vocabulary into a real language, complete with grammar rules and phonology, and went so far as to publish The Klingon Dictionary and to create the Klingon Language Institute.[23] Okrand's Klingon language was used to write the Klingon dialogues heard in several Star Trek movies and episodes.[24] However, despite these facts, there is no exception to canon rules on record for this complete Klingon language. Therefore, only the Klingon words spoken on-screen qualify as canon.

[edit] References
^ a b c d e f g h i What is considered Star Trek "canon"? FAQ entry at the official Star Trek website. URL retrieved 25th November 2006.
^ Remastering Star Trek: TOS FX, Music Enhanced at the official Star Trek website. URL retrieved 23rd January 2007.
^ a b c d Richard Arnold, Star Trek: The Next Generation research consultant and Star Trek archivist, 1991 interview with Tim Lynch.
^ a b Paula Block, VCP Senior Director of Licensed Publishing, TrekBBS posts, December 2005.
^ STAR TREK:THE ANIMATED SERIES interview with David Gerrold
^ "Do you think the Animated series should be considered canon? Or even more so, IS the Animated Series canon?" "We don't consider it canon, but it's kinda cool to throw in the odd reference here and there." - Ronald D. Moore, AOL's "Ask Ron D. Moore" message board, October 1998.
^ "The script even owes itself in no small measure to the animated episode "Yesteryear" written by D.C. Fontana — when Spock goes back in time to meet himself as a child — and that is where the term "Forge" is first used. [...] Among other things, the Earth embassy is located in the city of Shi'Khar, which in "Yesteryear" is identified as Spock's hometown." Production Report: "The Forge" Begins Three-Part Vulcan Saga article at the official Star Trek website. URL retrieved 16 June 2007.
^ STAR TREK:THE ANIMATED SERIES feature at the official Star Trek website. URL retrieved 9th January 2006.
^ "I wouldn't really consider any of this 'hard canon,' so take it all with a grain of salt. Both bios were slapped together hastily and weren't approved by the exec producers." - Mike Sussman, Enterprise Producer, TrekBBS posts, 30 April 2005.
^ "The "Director's Edition" version of the film is not substantively longer than the original theatrical release, as he pointed out during last week's gala premiere at Paramount. But there were certain short scenes that Meyer felt needed to be restored. A couple of those scenes involve Midshipman Peter Preston in Engineering, with dialog establishing Preston as Scotty's nephew ("my sister's youngest")." Spotlight: Meyer Speaks Proudly of "Khan" article at the official Star Trek website. URL retrieved 16 June 2007.
^ Okuda, Michael; Denise Okuda (1996). Star Trek Chronology: The History of the Future, revised edition. New York: Pocket Books. vii. ISBN 0-671-53610-9.
^ a b "Only the reference books (tech manual, encyclopedia, etc...) and two books by Jeri Taylor are considered canon outside the TV show and movies." - Harry Lang, Senior Director of Viacom Consumer Products Interactive division, posts on StarTrek.com forum, January 2005.
^ Roddenberry, Gene (1979). Star Trek: The Motion Picture. New York: Pocket Books. pp. 66-67. ISBN 0-671-83088-0.
^ "The novelization that Gene wrote himself, of Star Trek: the Motion Picture, he does not consider canon either, because he also went off on tangents, that he said that it's okay for individual writers to do that, and he certainly had some fun with it himself, filling in parts of the puzzle that he never would've been able to do on film, it would've been a ten-hour movie, but he doesn't want even that used for canon, because otherwise, where do you draw the line? Which books are accepted and which aren't?" - Richard Arnold, Star Trek: The Next Generation research consultant and Star Trek archivist, 1991 interview with Tim Lynch.
^ "Documents such as this Technical Manual help give some background to the vision we work so hard to create on Star Trek. Rick and Mike have obviously had a lot of fun filling in the gaps and trying to find technical 'explanations' for some of our mistakes." - Gene Roddenberry, Introduction to the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual
^ "How 'official' is this stuff? Well, this is the first technical manual done by folks who actually work on Star Trek. It's closely based on source material we've developed in conjunction with our writers and producers in our role as technical consultants for the series. In that sense it can be considered pretty 'official'." - Mike Okuda and Rick Sternbach, Introduction to the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual
^ "You have to remember that things like CD-ROMs and the various "official" manuals put out by Paramount are not done in conjunction with the writing/producing staffs and that the authors are usually simply extrapolating information based on what's actually been seen on screen." - Ronald D. Moore, AOL's "Ask Ron D. Moore" message board, July 1998
^ "We do use things like the Encyclopedia, the Chronology, the Technical Manual etc. for reference, but unless it was explicitly mentioned on screen, we won't feel bound by anything stated even in those books." - Ronald D. Moore, "Star Trek Continuum" message board posting, September 1998.
^ "The tech manuals are written by ST production staff, same as the Encyclopedia (Mike Okuda). Since their contents report on what is canon, they are technically canon." - Harry Lang, Senior Director of Viacom Consumer Products Interactive division, posts on StarTrek.com forum, January 2005.
^ "Gene rewrote virtually every Star Trek script for the first two seasons, often working around the clock, days at a time, to produce scripts that conformed to his view of what Star Trek was and could be. It was not unusual for Gene to be walking out of the studio in the morning as the actors were arriving. As Gene used to say, 'It isn’t Star Trek until I say it’s Star Trek.' This ability to synthesize and improve input from others, adding his own special insights and touches, is best illustrated in the famous opening that set the tone for the series." - David Alexander, Star Trek Creator: The Authorized Biography of Gene Roddenberry, 1994.
^ "I would hope there are bright young people, growing up all the time, who will bring to [Star Trek] levels and areas that were beyond me, and I don't feel jealous about that at all. [...] It'll go on, without any of us, and get better and better and better, because that's the... that really is the human condition. It's to improve and improve." - Gene Roddenberry, The Star Trek Saga: From One Generation to the Next, 1988.
^ "There's a good chance that when I'm gone, others will come along and do so well that people will say, 'Oh, that Roddenberry. He was never this good.' But I will be pleased with that statement." - Gene Roddenberry, Los Angeles Times TV Times, article "Star Trek's New Frontier", 1993.
^ About the Klingon Language article at the Klingon Language Institute. URL retrieved 5th December 2006.
^ Marc Okrand short bio at StarTrek.com, the official Star Trek website. URL retrieved 5th December 2006.
[edit] See also
Timeline of Star Trek
[edit] External links
What is considered Star Trek "canon"? article at StarTrek.com, the official Star Trek website.
Canon at Memory Alpha (a Star Trek wiki)
Memory Alpha:Canon policy at Memory Alpha (a Star Trek wiki)
[hide]v • d • eStar Trek

Television series The Original Series (episodes) · The Animated Series (episodes) · The Next Generation (episodes) · Deep Space Nine (episodes) · Voyager (episodes) · Enterprise (episodes)

Feature films The Motion Picture · The Wrath of Khan · The Search for Spock · The Voyage Home · The Final Frontier · The Undiscovered Country · Generations · First Contact · Insurrection · Nemesis · Star Trek

Documentaries Trekkies · Trekkies 2

Fictional elements Alien races · Characters · Deep Space Nine · Prime Directive · Stardates · Starfleet · Timeline · Starship Enterprise · United Federation of Planets · USS Defiant · USS Voyager · Ships · Weapons

Other topics Canon · Comics · Cultural influence · Fan productions · Fandom · Games · Memory Alpha · Novels · Physics · Production staff · Reference books · Sexuality · Star Trek: The Experience · Star Trek: Phase II · Trekkie


Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_canon"
Categories: Star Trek | Canons
Hidden categories: Articles containing potentially dated statements from 2007 | All articles containing potentially dated statementsViewsArticle Discussion Edit this page History Personal toolsTry Beta Log in / create account Navigation
Main page
Contents
Featured content
Current events
Random article
Search
Interaction
About Wikipedia
Community portal
Recent changes
Contact Wikipedia
Donate to Wikipedia
Help
Toolbox
What links here
Related changes
Upload file
Special pages
Printable version
Permanent link
Cite this page
Languages
Italiano

This page was last modified on 1 October 2009 at 21:50. Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. See Terms of Use for details.
Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a non-profit organization. Privacy policy About Wikipedia Disclaimers

[Alelou]

Maybe Richard Arnold took it down because he didn't like Gerrold calling him an errand boy with an overgrown ego...

[WarpGirl]

Can we talk about Malcolm and Hoshi a little? As for "Canon" My rule of thumb is use what works, and adjust what doesn't. Just lable any adjustments as AU.

[AussieSheila]

I was certain they were gonna make a H/M thing with them dropping all those little hints and suggestions on us. I'm quite disappointed that nothing serious grew out of it. Ah, but there is always imagination, and a little fanfic.

[WarpGirl]

Amen!

[Distracted]

I was certain they were gonna make a H/M thing with them dropping all those little hints and suggestions on us. I'm quite disappointed that nothing serious grew out of it. Ah, but there is always imagination, and a little fanfic.

You plan on writing any?

[AussieSheila]

for the h/m fics, i have plenty of ideas in my head but noting on paper yet. although i do plan to write a few on them. i think they deserve a chance to shine as well as t/t. i mean, ALL the attention is on them! they should've shedded some more light on the possibility of h/m.

[WarpGirl]

Well there are people here LIKE ME who love H/M very much and would love the oppertunity to have some more lovely fic for them.

[Silverbullet]

Horsepuckey and Green Grass. Never been on this thread before.

One Night Stand. Never cottoned to that in the Episode. Do not believe Hoshi would have done that. Especially since she didn't seem to care after she left the Bed. She might have been shown to at least thinking about the encounter.

ARcher, He could have been a switch Hittter. He did have it on with Erika but who knows? he may have played drop the soap in the Mens shower at the acadmy.

Hoshi Travis, Travis has this HOT girl friend in gannet why break up such a lovely couple.

Hoshi/Malcom both reserved both thoughtful. she would be the perfect mate for him. As T-Pol told Trip, what hapened on the other Enterprise in e2 (Malcom not being married) is not necesairy what would happen on our entrprise so Mal could get married and who better than Hoshi to be his Bride. Only thing they would have to consider is if they had a Christian or buddhist ceremony.

[WarpGirl]

OK.... First of all, I wouldn't say that Hoshi didn't care about what happened in Two Days Two Nights, I'm not partial to casual sex, but Hoshi would care, and the very last scene she is shown thinking about it. Re-watch the episode if you don't believe me.

Not touching the Archer thing!

I could care less about Travis and Gannet.

As for H/M Yes I agree that they are extremely well suited to each other. Yes I think they could have a long and fullfilling relationship. But what makes you thing they'd choose to have a religious ceremony at all? I think it far more likely that they'd have a civil ceremony if they had one at all. Also you can't assume that he's a Christian and she's a Buddhist based on race. That's crazy! It's entirely possible Hoshi was raised in Christianity, there are Christians in Asia and Japan. Also Malcom spent a lot of his life in Malayasia, he could be an Eastern Faith, or a Muslim.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, I think that in one episode Hoshi says she is a buddhist. Hell, it could have been a FanFic I get them mixed up these days. Believe Malcom is a Scot first and foremost. He would probably me a Church of Scotland member. Certainly not Easteren or Muslim.

why a religious ceremony. believe that both Hoshi and Malcom would want one because of thier heritages and they are traditionalists. Besides Hoshi would look beautiful in a Wedding Dress or in buddhist cermonial wedding robes.

[WarpGirl]

I know that there isn't an episode where Hoshi says she's a Buddhist. And Malcolm isn't Scottish he's English. And that doesn't automatically make him a Christian. Do you have any idea how many different religions are practiced in England? Let me tell you something quite a few. More than in the US. And neither Hoshi or Malcolm are traditionalists otherwise they would have gone into their respective family businesses. I agree they are proud of where they come from, but basing their religions on a location is not practical.