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Linda wrote:Does that mean Rrrrigil has Rrrrridges?

Heh. I am trying to get a buddy of mine to manipulate a pic of me to give me the pointy ears and bumpy forehead...

Since they established that there are both smooth heads and bumpy foreheads, it's my theory that the smooth heads are the "purebloods" (for lack of a better term) and are the closest to Vulcans in genetic ancestry since their family line doesn't have any non-Vulcanoid/Rihannsu blood. The bumpy foreheads (of which there are evidently more of) are of families that interbred with other species like the Debrune (and thus, acquired the bumpy foreheads.)

I suspect that they were a clan, or group of clans that left pretty much en masse.

Maybe the Romulans used genetic engineering to alter their looks or because of the long journey to the Romulan worls the radiation altered the genes the ships would start breaking and falling apart. In Diane Duane's books and the Vulcan Soul books they mention some of these things in the books.

Very good point about the ships/radiation.

Evcake, I am leaning toward your idea of clan groups comprising "Those Who March Beneath the Rapto's Wings" and left Vulcan at the time of Surak. It is likely that whole families would immigrate together, as has been the case between continents here on Earth. But all the ideas people are contributing here are very good! I am thinking that the ridges are the mark of a Vulcan sub-species or racial variety occurring in certain clans which found themselves in the minority politically at the time of Surak. This political difference might account, at least in part, for the Romulan angst against the Vulcans. The feeling that they were being kicked off the planet because they did not fit in racially or politically - even if they mostly left voluntarily. Legend can often differ from forgotten fact if it suits the psychology of a culture.

Interbreeding outside the Vulcanoid species could account for the ridges, and is entirely plausable if mostly males left and therefore needed alien mates, I think it would be mostly family groups that left. And people have pointed out that in canon some Vulcans have ridges and some Romulans do not. Because of this, I am more comfortable with ridges being part of the Vulcanoid racial traits - popping up in all Vulcanoid populations, but being especially prevalent in Romulans. If anyone strongly disagrees with this position, I am still pondering this, LOL. You could still state your case.

" I am thinking that the ridges are the mark of a Vulcan sub-species or racial variety occurring in certain clans which found themselves in the minority politically at the time of Surak. This political difference might account, at least in part, for the Romulan angst against the Vulcans."

Hey - nice touch.

Linda wrote:And people have pointed out that in canon some Vulcans have ridges and some Romulans do not.

Where has it been pointed out in canon that there are Vulcans with ridges?

No where that I'm aware of...

Helpful link here: Romulan Words

I think entire families and clans left Vulcan during the Sundering. In Diane Duane books and the Vulcan Soul book series we see whole families leave and clans we see their traditions and rivialries and political factions and strife.

Ok, I think it was a non-canon source where I came across a Vulcan with ridges. I have read so many Star Trek books it all runs together after awhile. But as people pointed out there are canon sources of Romulans without ridges. I probably won't go back to read the Sherman/Schwartz or Duane books before I finish my raptor fic. I will just go with what seems the most plausable to me and fits best into my story. I am sure there are lots of debateable points in my story, LOL.

Linda I agree with you you've got your own ideas about the Romulans in your story and and finishing what you've got plotted I think that's really neat go for it.I like to see other writers ideas about why the Romulans have ridges and look slightly different and their mindset being different and morer warlike than the Vulcans.

Well, I made a pitiful attempt to explain that along with the many commonalities with the Romans in Bernd's "Canon Fodder" website if anyone wants to look it up.

I found an interesting site HERE that used a word ("Rom'lesta") that I had not seen before. Is that something that was completely made up by the website author, or is it from Duane's books?

^ Nifty site there!

The problem with Diane Duane's work is if you want to stick with canon that now includes Remans. I suppose Ch'Havran is Remus and from that site above they just seem to be another kind of Romulans.

I suppose you can pick and chose things from both Duane's books and the ones by Shwartz and Sherman, and then make up something that fits with what's established in canon.

Kevin Thomas Riley wrote:The problem with Diane Duane's work is if you want to stick with canon that now includes Remans. I suppose Ch'Havran is Remus and from that site above they just seem to be another kind of Romulans.

Unless the Remans were natives and were oppressed by both the Rihannsu and the Rom'lesta ... I still don't understand the differences between the two, although I haven't really looked that hard...

I suppose you can pick and chose things from both Duane's books and the ones by Shwartz and Sherman, and them make up something that fits with what's established in canon.

That's the plan for me. The readers will have to determine whether I succeeded or not.