T'Pau

[WarpGirl]

Do sarcastic marriage proposals over Chicken Parmigiana count? Because none of them ever made good! I really don't know why I bothered to cook, it's not like anybody helped with the dishes.

Anyway back to T'Pau I haven't see the "Vulcan Episode Arch" yet but I think it might be possible to not throw anything at my TV. At least I hope so. I heard T'Pau is a tough lady in them and not so umm nice. Oh well kindness might be a virtue, but it's not needed to be virtuous. It just bugs me that everything has to be so darned mixed up. Is a little attention to detail too much to ask these days?

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

My main gripe with the T'Pau in ENT's Vulcan arc is that she was indeed a bit young, but I suppose ruling Vulcan for the next hundred years could transform the youthful Kara Zediker into the old crone Celia Lovsky. What is worse is that they should've kept Lovsky's distinct accent. Granted voices can change over time, but would it have killed them to have made an effort?

[WarpGirl]

Thank you I am not alone! The fact that she's younger than T'Pol really got to me. I was like 'What? She's basically the queen of Vulcan and the most logical Vulcan to live since Surak, and they have her as the Vulcan equivalent of a teenager.' Jeeze Mary-Sue much people.

[Asso]

I agree with you.
Nonsense.
And I have to say I got embarassed when I saw T'Pau and T'Pol together; it almost seemed that T'Pol was saying: "Well! What want you? Authors wanted the things to be so."

[Aquarius]

But why would they put it on the "OFFICIAL SITE" if it wasn't true? That makes no sense. I mean if it was a fan-site I would've kept my big mouth shut. Or at least stopped my fingers from typing about it.

Oftentimes there is a difference between "official" and "canon".

Borrowing from Star Wars for a moment, the novels are officially licensed by Lucasfilm, which means that the publisher and the authors have legal permission to make money off of George's creation, but they are not canon, as George himself has said that he does not feel bound by whatever any other author wrote. I know many fans feel he contradicted this by using the name "Coruscant" when he started making the prequels, but honestly, that was more or less him hearing a name and liking it and not some official papal blessing that the rest of the books have become canonized. Also, when the books were first being published, there were disclaimers in the beginning that went to the tune that the enclosed story was just one author's idea of what could've happened after RotJ.

That's is but one example of how something can be official without being canon. Someone probably wrote a profic novel and made that word up for bond dissolution, so now it's "official."

[Aquarius]

You know I have a real problem with all of this "cannon" stuff. What it is what it isn't. Why bother merchandising, writing books, encyclopedias, give background information if the only thing that's "real" is 60 minutes of TV time. Or in SW's case what a stuffy old man says is real. It's not fair! I hate it. OK I need to stop ranting...

Because five TV series worth 700+ episodes and 10 movies (or whatever the amount was when something was written) is quite daunting in itself to keep track of when you're making a TV series or movie.

Besides, a lot of the tie-ins contradict each other, and what was (later) made into live action.

The publishers of the Trek novels have also been very clear in their standards and practices that when you write one, you can't do anything to contradict the series or the films, so if you marry off a major character, they have to be unmarried by the time it's over; if you kill a major character, they have to miraculously come back to life by the end, etc. All along TPTB at Trek have established that the books are not canon.

[WarpGirl]

I wasn't really referring to the books that tell stories. I mean the "technical books." But yes I see the point. Still it's annoying, the whole concept of this is true but this isn't and IT'S RIGHT THERE, irritates me to no end. OK I've really got to stop this now... I'm shutting up no more talk about "cannon" I'll chop my fingers off.

I was disappointed in T'Pau's hair, yeah I know what a girlie thing to say, but she had the most outrageous hair in TOS and it was so boring in ENT. I mean it's true hair care is difficult in desert caves but the hair was what stuck in my mind as a child. Then again there wasn't any outlandish Vulcan jewelry either for the men or the women. Sarek used to wear tons. I find it hard to believe they couldn't raid the storeroom and get some.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

I'm shutting up no more talk about "cannon" I'll chop my fingers off.

Good thing too, 'cause this is what a cannon is:



As opposed to "canon"...

[WarpGirl]

I'm bad at spelling and grammar. I always have been please excuse my stupidity.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

No worries! I was just pulling your leg. It's a common mistake a lot of Trek fans make when talking about the subject.

[JadziaKathryn]

My main gripe with the T'Pau in ENT's Vulcan arc is that she was indeed a bit young, but I suppose ruling Vulcan for the next hundred years could transform the youthful Kara Zediker into the old crone Celia Lovsky. What is worse is that they should've kept Lovsky's distinct accent. Granted voices can change over time, but would it have killed them to have made an effort?

I agree. It's sort of unlikely that her accent would've changed that much... unless she deliberately decided she wanted to sound different. But that's hardly logical.

[WarpGirl]

Well considering that she wasn't too thrilled with Spock who was at least close to her if not canonically family, and she wasn't nice to Archer even after he carried Surak's Katra... I'm willing to bet she would have nearly had a stroke when she first discovered humans and Vulcans could share mating bonds.

[Kotik]

Well considering that she wasn't too thrilled with Spock who was at least close to her if not canonically family, and she wasn't nice to Archer even after he carried Surak's Katra... I'm willing to bet she would have nearly had a stroke when she first discovered humans and Vulcans could share mating bonds.

Sorry to bring an oldish thread back, but when it comes to T'Pau, I have my own take on it.

In the Vulcan arc it is established that she's 32. Considering that T'Pol is 65 and about marriage age still waiting for the first Pon-Farr to make her go all swivel-eyed, it's clear that T'Pau in ENT time is barely a teenager. And since she's been in the damn desert for 2 years, when Super Archer walks in, there are a few questions, that need to be asked

a) What does a child do amongst a group of Surak fanatics

b) How come she's de-facto leader when Syrran goes west

c) if you're in the desert with only a couple mucho hungry sehlats and circus freaks like Syrran for company, wouldn't that f*ck up your character, too?

Since I couldn't find any references about T'Pau's parents anywhere, I have made my own conclusions for my very personal post Terra-Prime universe. In my view she lost her parents as an infant and was raised by the Syrranites. That's what gave her such a bitchy character on screen. Being raised by freaks like Syrran, who prattle on about Surak from dusk till dawn isn't my idea of an ideal childhood and youth, even for a Vulcan. Being forced into the leading role while going head-to-head with the High Command while being barely old enough to grow boobs doesn't help eigther.

Too bad really, the character has potential, and the fact that she's cute helps a lot. Someone just has to explain to her, what a hairdresser is

[WarpGirl]

Um WOW you really don't like Syrranites do you? I really loved the old geezer. Oh well to each his own. I think T'Pau was WAY too young in ENT it made no sense. But yeah she did haughty, self-righteous, zealot religous teen well.

[Kotik]

Um WOW you really don't like Syrranites do you? I really loved the old geezer. Oh well to each his own. I think T'Pau was WAY too young in ENT it made no sense. But yeah she did haughty, self-righteous, zealot religous teen well.

I had several problems with the Vulcan arc, many of them were down to sheer stupidity of the script.

1. There was an unobstructed cave entry in their camp, yet in two years no one had an idea to take a look. Those people surely had a perception issue.

2. For a bunch of Surakian peace lovers, they were quite healthily armed I would say

3. T'Les, what the hell was that woman doing. Sells off her daughter into a forced marriage to regain a post that she knows she'll lose again anyway, because the VHC is already starting to go after the Syrranites (that was a big WTF?? moment )

4. Syrran. He had years of time to look what that cave is for. SuperArcher gets his brain fried, wakes up and walks straight to where the Kir'Shara is (WTF the second ) Surely if Suraks waited for a grimy human to drop by, that Syrran dud wasn't what Surak had in mind for someone to find the Kir'Shara

5. Syrran again. That dude was running around the desert making Sehlat noises, how the hell did he know what V'Las was up to. The two weren't exactly pub buddies. Just another lame plot to paint a big fat S on Archers chest again.

Coming back to the original topic of T'Pau's bitchyness. If I was confined to a ruin in the desert, surrounded by such a dimwitted bunch of fanatics, I'd get bitchy like hell as well and my hairdo would look a whole lot more messed up, too.