A Hoshi and T'Pol Friendship

[WarpGirl]

Am I the only one disappointed that there really isn't much of one on Enterprise? I mean there were only two women on the show and five men! Would it have killed someone to write a little feminine solidarity between these two characters? What ever happened to the "Sisterhood?" I'm sorry but that annoyed me, especially when in "Sleeping Dogs" T'Pol offered to teach Hoshi meditation and gave her extremely high praise. It could have been such an interesting dynamic, had it been explored. Who knows, T'Pol might have been able to make fewer mistakes if she had gotten some advice on humanity from another woman's prospective. Besides part of the problem with ratings could have been solved if they had catered a bit more to women in the first place. So do you think Hoshi and T'Pol could have become good friends?

[Asso]

Once again your thoughts are my thoughts.
And I hope I don't bore you if I repeat that I think my "Human Mood" - part two, could be enjoyed by you.

[panyasan]

Am I the only one disappointed that there really isn't much of one on Enterprise? I mean there were only two women on the show and five men! Would it have killed someone to write a little feminine solidarity between these two characters? What ever happened to the "Sisterhood?" I'm sorry but that annoyed me, especially when in "Sleeping Dogs" T'Pol offered to teach Hoshi meditation and gave her extremely high praise. It could have been such an interesting dynamic, had it been explored. Who knows, T'Pol might have been able to make fewer mistakes if she had gotten some advice on humanity from another woman's prospective. Besides part of the problem with ratings could have been solved if they had catered a bit more to women in the first place. So do you think Hoshi and T'Pol could have become good friends?

Yes, they made a nice start in Sleeping Dogs, but soon after that we saw nothing of any friendship between them. I am not really a believer in Sisterhood, but I agree Hoshi and T'Pol would make a nice dynamic friendship. There are some fic's that have some Hoshi/T'Pol friendship, but always in connection with T'Pols relationship with Trip, e.g. Hoshi is helping her to prepare for a date.
It would be nice to have a fic where Hoshi and T'Pol are solving some linquistic-science problem, I don't know if they exist.

[WarpGirl]

To put it bluntly it's pretty unrealistic to stick two women in the ultra male dynamic of Enterprise's crew and not have them bond. We ladies are creatures who sometimes get tired of decoding, and explaining ourselves to men. And even though Vulcans aren't human I'm sure they have their gender issues too. Women provide each-other with psychological support that men can't provide. To be fair men have the same need and they fulfill it for each-other. Yet they completely disregard it in Enterprise. It makes no sense to me. Hoshi and T'Pol actually have quite a few things in common, and they both have relatively serene temperaments that are well suited to each-other.

[Linda]

Well there were other women on Enterprise. In Fusion, I think Trip mentioned to Kov that a quarter of the crew was female. But the only other women they even wrote into story lines by name were Liz Cutler (who was interested in Phlox) and Jane Taylor (the engineer who died in a Xindi attack on the ship and Trip had to write a letter to her parents). So yes, there was a conspicuous absence of female characters other than Hoshi and T'Pol.

[WarpGirl]

Well I'm a "stiletto feminist" but that's not really why I object. I'm thinking of all the good stories they could have developed between Hoshi and T'Pol. Both brilliant, beautiful, young, geniuses, and completely out of their comfort zones. So much wasted potential, and as a woman I like to see other women supporting each-other in stories. But unfortunately Jeri Taylor and D.C. Fontana left the boys to play by themselves. Really that was a shame.

[Aquarius]

It's understandable that T'Pol would have a difficult time forming friendships, especially with subordinates...though I agree that after a while you'd think that T'Pol would treat Hoshi with a good deal more familiarity than the other women on the show. I'm sort of working this into "Body and Katra," not that they're suddenly BFFs, but you know how it is...sometimes you just have to talk to another woman about stuff.

[WarpGirl]

While I agree that T'Pol would have trouble warming up to Hoshi at first, in reality it would have been a good idea. Since Hoshi speaks fluent Vulcan it might have been easier for T'Pol to express herself to her, instead of having to put her "Vulcan thoughts" into "human terms." I'm not saying that they would automatically confide in each-other about things like Koss and Tolaris. But it could have started with "How do I convince Captain Archer of the most logical and prudent course of action without antagonizing him?" Hoshi could have helped her phrase things in an inoffensive way, making it much easier for T'Pol to function as First Officer and trying to acclimate into the crew. From there I think a real friendship could grow, as T'Pol could help Hoshi get her "space legs." It certainly would have been interesting to see.

[panyasan]

But it could have started with "How do I convince Captain Archer of the most logical and prudent course of action without antagonizing him?" Hoshi could have helped her phrase things in an inoffensive way, making it much easier for T'Pol to function as First Officer and trying to acclimate into the crew. From there I think a real friendship could grow, as T'Pol could help Hoshi get her "space legs." It certainly would have been interesting to see.

That is really a good idea. It would also give us a change to see how T'Pol reacts to people besides the Captain and Trip.

[WarpGirl]

Exactly! T'Pol was interacting with Trip, Phlox and Archer. We never got to see her interact with other women unless she was scaring away Trip's admirers. Hoshi interacted with Malcolm, Phlox, and Travis. We never saw either of them without the boys, what a waste. In TNG Bev and Dea, had a relationship. In DS9 there was Kira and Dax, and in the beginning of VOY B'Elanna and Janeway had a great relationship. Of course after the departure of Jeri Taylor that got pushed aside, and they made 7of9 the focus of the show... Another can of tuna... Anyway they just completely ignored any interaction between the two female leads in ENT and it is a crying shame. Boys are wonderful, and they were all yummy to look at but come on they can get a little boring after a while.

[Asso]

Exactly! T'Pol was interacting with Trip, Phlox and Archer. We never got to see her interact with other women unless she was scaring away Trip's admirers. Hoshi interacted with Malcolm, Phlox, and Travis. We never saw either of them without the boys, what a waste. In TNG Bev and Dea, had a relationship. In DS9 there was Kira and Dax, and in the beginning of VOY B'Elanna and Janeway had a great relationship. Of course after the departure of Jeri Taylor that got pushed aside, and they made 7of9 the focus of the show... Another can of tuna... Anyway they just completely ignored any interaction between the two female leads in ENT and it is a crying shame. Boys are wonderful, and they were all yummy to look at but come on they can get a little boring after a while.

Oh... you're right.

[JadziaKathryn]

While I agree that T'Pol would have trouble warming up to Hoshi at first, in reality it would have been a good idea. Since Hoshi speaks fluent Vulcan it might have been easier for T'Pol to express herself to her, instead of having to put her "Vulcan thoughts" into "human terms." I'm not saying that they would automatically confide in each-other about things like Koss and Tolaris. But it could have started with "How do I convince Captain Archer of the most logical and prudent course of action without antagonizing him?" Hoshi could have helped her phrase things in an inoffensive way, making it much easier for T'Pol to function as First Officer and trying to acclimate into the crew. From there I think a real friendship could grow, as T'Pol could help Hoshi get her "space legs." It certainly would have been interesting to see.

Exactly! (Even more potential if you go with the idea I've read before that Hoshi did an exchange semester/year on Vulcan.) And from there I think the two of them could develop a relationship of mutual regard and respect. I do think sometimes T'Pol might need some things clarified about differences between male and female behavior, and human customs in general. "Why are so many of the males engaged in heated disputes over a Super Bowl?" At the same time T'Pol could learn more about humanity from Hoshi, I think she would also be a good mentor for Hoshi in space travel and finding her own self-confidence.

Frankly, it could only have helped develop Hoshi as a character, something which was sadly lacking most of the time.

I also thought, at least in the beginning, that an unusual sort of friendship could've developed between T'Pol and Malcolm. Both of them are very private, and I could see them sharing a mutual affinity based on their similar tendencies. (Imagine the two of them cooking up a perfectly logical excuse to avoid the big Valentine's Day party, or Malcolm teaching T'Pol to look out for hidden mistletoe at Christmas.) This, I admit, is more seasons 1 & 2.

[WarpGirl]

Oh no I think Malcolm and T'pol would consider themselves the "social misfits" on ship. I think they would have an empathy for each-other. As I had Trip tell Malcolm in my fic, "you've got a lot of empathy for Vulcan behavior." Both Trip and Hoshi 'get them.' Hoshi gets along really well with Malcolm I'm certain she would be able to bond in friendship with T'Pol. Oh if only B-B weren't such "guys" they stripped everyone down to their skivvies but not much else.

[panyasan]

I was thinking about T'Pol interacting with other women on the ship, there are a lot of thing standing in the way of this interaction.
First, T'Pol is the highest ranking woman, she is the XO, which makes it difficult for lower ranking women to develop a friendship.
But also she is alien, intelligent, beautiful, has this friendship with Trip, all these things make her in the eyes of other women a outsider, competition, so problably they wouldn't let her in their own circle of friends.
T'Pol reaches out to Hoshi in Sleeping Dogs and there is also another episode where Hoshi and T'Pol are working on a way to translate a lanquage. If you do translate a lanquage, like Hoshi does as a daily living, you have to know the cultural background and Hoshi should have know about a lot of different cultures, including Vulcan. She is also a brigde officer. This makes her a perfect candidate for a friendship with T'Pol.
But Hoshi never does anything to become friends with T'Pol, nor does she shows any interest in Vulcan culture. Made me wonder why? (Besides the fact that the writers dropped this story line.)

[WarpGirl]

Yeah that never made sense to me either. A language Professor would have to teach their students the etiquette of the language they were studying. In some languages a word's meaning changes simply by the tone of voice you use when speaking it. If Hoshi is as good a linguist and teacher as she is portrayed she would have had to study cultures extensively. Yet she rarely if ever seems to function in that capacity. She literally is the only human aboard Enterprise that should be able to understand and effectively communicate with T'Pol at first. Yet nothing happens. And really they have so much in common it's crazy that the "boys" didn't let them bond.