A Hoshi and T'Pol Friendship

[honeybee]

T'Pol outranks Trip based purely on seniority - rather than rank, especially by the fourth season when they both hold the Starfleet rank of commander. Sub-commander was implied to be a notch higher in Broken Bow, but that was always nebulous. I always got the feeling Trip let her be in charge because she had more command experience at that time. So, in my mind, once of the reasons T'Pol allowed herself to be friends with Trip because he was so close to her in rank. She also seems to see no issue with them becoming romantically involved in the third season, as well. I doubt she would have had the same opinion about getting involved with Travis or Hoshi, even though they are bridge officers. Even Malcolm may have been an issue.

I don't think T'Pol became friends/fell in love with Trip because of they were the same rank, but the rank didn't logically stand in the way when circumstances pushed them together.

I think T'Pol was probably a lonely person - even for a Vulcan - and it took a whole lot to break down her barriers. Trip inadvertently learning intimate information about her in "Breaking the Ice" helped do that.

I'm not saying she couldn't have been friends with Hoshi, but after "Sleeping Dogs" - the writers just didn't give T'Pol any reason to let down her barriers around her.

[Aquarius]

I don't think T'Pol became friends/fell in love with Trip because of they were the same rank, but the rank didn't logically stand in the way when circumstances pushed them together.

Right, and I agree. I just brought up the rank thing because, as things are set up in this world, since she's the XO, he's gotta listen to her, especially if the captain is incompacitated. The potential for conflict of interest exists, as it can if one befriends someone even lower under her command. That's all I meant.

[Alelou]

I think it logically OUGHT to have stood in the way for both of them.

However, I'm glad they ignored logic. I'm also glad they didn't hurt the crew or their mission in the process, as they easily could have.

[WarpGirl]

T'Pol outranks Trip based purely on seniority - rather than rank, especially by the fourth season when they both hold the Starfleet rank of commander. Sub-commander was implied to be a notch higher in Broken Bow, but that was always nebulous. I always got the feeling Trip let her be in charge because she had more command experience at that time. So, in my mind, once of the reasons T'Pol allowed herself to be friends with Trip because he was so close to her in rank. She also seems to see no issue with them becoming romantically involved in the third season, as well. I doubt she would have had the same opinion about getting involved with Travis or Hoshi, even though they are bridge officers. Even Malcolm may have been an issue.

I don't think T'Pol became friends/fell in love with Trip because of they were the same rank, but the rank didn't logically stand in the way when circumstances pushed them together.

I think T'Pol was probably a lonely person - even for a Vulcan - and it took a whole lot to break down her barriers. Trip inadvertently learning intimate information about her in "Breaking the Ice" helped do that.

I'm not saying she couldn't have been friends with Hoshi, but after "Sleeping Dogs" - the writers just didn't give T'Pol any reason to let down her barriers around her.

Honeybee you're amazing! However it was your last sentence that is my whole point there was nothing. About the rank thing though Frat rules OBVIOUSLY don't exist in Starfleet lucky us, so if those rules don't exist, you could make a logical arguement either way. Riker certainly slept with a few. He didn't get in trouble. One was even an Ensign.

[Silverbullet]

Trip would have senority over T-Pol because she was a new inductee into Starfleet. Her VHC rank would not carry over. so, Trip is senior comander and T-Pol is junior commander. That is the way it works. they would have had to make her a captain for her to outrank Trip.

[Aquarius]

...and if she's the First Officer, and Archer is incompacitated, she's in charge of the whole ship. Including Trip. If we look at what we're shown in the show, this bears out, because Trip is only in charge when T'Pol and Archer are unavailable.

[honeybee]

However it works in the our world, T'Pol is clearly shown multiple times to be the one in charge if Archer is away. Trip takes over if T'Pol and Archer are of the ship. This is true from "Broken Bow" all the way through the fourth season.

Which reminds me of how much I disliked the B-plot of "The Seventh" when Trip is interim Captain.

[Alelou]

Nobody who likes Trip could have liked that stupid B-plot.

Hell, nobody who likes Archer should like that B-plot either. What the hell is the man thinking, leaving Trip in command with no clue where they've gone or what they're doing?

[honeybee]

Thankfully, we got competent Captain Trip in later episodes.

Back to the topic at hand. On the one hand, I remain glad that they didn't do a cliched "girl" friendship between Hoshi and T'Pol - but it's weird that they seemed to not interact with one another much after the first season.

[Silverbullet]

In the series T-Pol was an Officer in the VHC tthrougth the first and second seasons. In the third season she was not a VHC Officer or a Starfleet Officer. She didn't even wear insignia of rank in the Third season. In the Fourth season she joined Starfleet. they commisioned her with the rank of commander but she would be at the bottom of the eligibility for promotion list. Trip because hewas a full Star Fleet Commander in all four season would have senority over T-Pol because she was a newly commisioned Officer same as if she had just gradduated from the acadmy and was commisioned. Actually she should have been commisioned an ensign but they gave deference to her VHC rank but not ther standing in the officer waiting promition list. If it was war time there might be an exception made for outstanding officers (WWWII Eisenhower was Promoted over the heads of better men who were higher on the list of those eligivle to be promoted.) As usual reality was ignored on the show. roddenbury would have not allowed it but he was no longer around.

[Escriba]

Back to the topic at hand. On the one hand, I remain glad that they didn't do a cliched "girl" friendship between Hoshi and T'Pol - but it's weird that they seemed to not interact with one another much after the first season.

Well, IMO this (like much of the bad things in Enteprise) is the second season's fault. In that season T'Pol interacts mostly with Archer. Even her interactions with Trip are severed in that season. Sidekick!T'Pol was a very bad thing for her relationships with other characters.

And later, above all in the fourth season, writers tried to recreate the Holy Three from TOS, with Archer/Trip/T'Pol, so there wasn't space for Hoshi.

Perhaps that's why I enjoyed their interaction in the MU episodes.

[Alelou]

They had a few interactions, they just aren't particularly memorable. Not much use was made of Hoshi/Anybody if you ask me. I wonder if the fact they started out with annoying Wuss!Hoshi and then had to redeem her practically overnight into Brave!Tough!Hoshi left her very inconsistently characterized -- and thus not particularly easy to write for.

[honeybee]

Absolutely - I actually liked fearful Hoshi and thought the the Xindi arc did give her a chance to grow as a character - with the surviving of the torture and all. But I think retconning her into a badass was a silly mistake. Her fourth season arc should have been about her coming to terms with what happened to her in the third season. Seems like a no-brainer.

I never thought early Hoshi was cowardly - she usually stepped up and did what she had to do - but she did express fear, which I didn't mind.

[Alelou]

I just didn't see how anyone could get through Starfleet as an officer and be THAT frank about being terrified. If you can't even pretend to suck it up, how can you command anyone else in a dangerous situation?

Yeah, yeah, I know, she has special expertise. But she was still an ensign who presumably graduated.

This may also just reflect my general disgust with "Fight or Flight," which probably lost half of the audience forever. It managed to make everyone look bad.

[honeybee]

Oh yeah. Fight or Flight. Haven't seen that one in awhile for obvious reasons.