Classic Rock in the 22nd Century

[WarpGirl]

Jazz is my absolut favorite type of music, especially the Jazz of the 20's through the early 60's. So the fact T'Pol loves Jazz made me really start to relate to her and start to really love her. I loved her before, but I started to "get" her after that.

[Aquarius]

Question: T'Pol was intrigued by some jazz music she heard in passing. It made her feel things. But does this necessarily translate to "T'Pol loves jazz"?

Discuss.

[panyasan]

Question: T'Pol was intrigued by some jazz music she heard in passing. It made her feel things. But does this necessarily translate to "T'Pol loves jazz"?

Discuss.

I think the reason you like some kind of music is because it does provokes certain emotions (or memories, but "emotional" memories, that's why I sing along with most of the songs of the 80-ties ).
The melody gets you, the lyrics or both. So in a way, when you feel something about a song (unless it's a emotion like: this really sucks ), chances are high you are like that kind of music.

[WarpGirl]

I don't know what else you would call it. She didn't use unpleasant terms to describe what she experienced. On the contrary the terms she used were terms to describe a good, and exciting experience. Now I've listened to music that made me feel stuff and none of it was good, so I wouldn't say I love that type of music. But that doesn't seem to be the case with T'Pol.

[honeybee]

I don't think a Vulcan would think of it as "loving" music, though a human would see it that way. We just know she's "drawn to it" because of the chaotic nature of the improvisations. It clearly evokes some kind of emotional reaction for her, which she also fears.

It might take awhile, but I can see her downloading and listening to pieces here and there as she gets used being among humans. Although, she might stop for at least awhile after Fusion due to bad memories. I'm sorry they never reference her love of jazz during Damage because, well jazz and addiction go to together like chocolate and peanut butter.

I can picture her listening to jazz in her quarters, alone. I don't think she'd do it publicly, because it does represent something that she views as dangerous and/or shameful. Given the respectability jazz has in our culture, that is something that humans would not get.

So, is jazz Vulcan emotion pornography? I can see her listening to it, but doing it very privately.

It would be interesting to see T'Pol invited to a jazz concert with Trip or even Archer, given that she sees the music as un-respectable. Also, I do think she would like Billie Holliday, but I think all that pain in Lady Day's voice would make her uncomfortable, too. She wouldn't want others to see her enjoying it. (lightbulb goes off for story).

[Asso]

Question: T'Pol was intrigued by some jazz music she heard in passing. It made her feel things. But does this necessarily translate to "T'Pol loves jazz"?

Discuss.

My next story will display my personal opinion about that.

[panyasan]

When jazz was developed, it was seen as a rebellious, different, breaking the rules of music. It was revolutionary, an answer to classic music and also a statement of people standing up against the status quo. In that respect, T'Pol loving jazz is poetic justice. (I am curious about your fic, Asso .)

[Alelou]

I have always assumed that T'Pol was "invigorated" by that particular jazz piece (which personally I didn't care for) because it was unconventional and breaking every rule in the book (though maybe not for its own time ... in which case no wonder they mostly listen to old stuff). It was just one more part of the thrill of sneaking out to hear it. I find it hard to believe that Vulcans don't have some aesthetic appreciation of music and I honestly didn't take that scene as implying that. Spock used to play the lyre on TOS, and we know Vulcans aren't opposed to appreciating beauty. And Kov mentions dancing as part of tedious rituals, so we know that a musical tradition of SOME kind exists.

[honeybee]

Vulcans love music. Spock, Tuvok and Sarek are all portrayed as enjoying music.

In fact, to really appreciate jazz as a rebellious form, you've got to know what its rebelling against. I imagine that the jazz T'Pol heard was antithetical to everything Vulcan's appreciate in their music (the kind that accompanies those tedious rituals that Kov talks about), so she was drawn to it. It's pretty specific in Fusion that it was the chaos (which I take to mean the improvisation) that is so compelling to her. So, she would probably appreciate live jazz and/or comparing different recordings of the same piece.

I see Vulcans as seeking definitive "versions" of their music, while jazz is about constant breakdown and reinvention.

[justTripn]

I am still waiting for rap and hip hop to make it into the Star Trek canon.

[honeybee]

If you count the new movie, young Kirk is listening to the Beastie Boys "Sabotage" in the antique car he's stolen from his stepfather. That's the only time I can think of anything remotely hip hop/rap surfacing in Trek. Can anyone remember if their were any hip hop beats in the background of Carpenter Street? Because it certainly would have fit in in that episode.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

They reason we never really hear people (Cochrane being one exception) in Trek listening to contemporary (for us) music is copyright. That's why we hear old jazz and classic music, which is now in the public domain.

The same with literature. We see a lot of Shakespeare stuff but even Conan Doyle is too recent, which is why they had to abandon holo-Sherlock on TNG after complaints from Conan Doyle's estate.

[panyasan]

There is a great documentary about how the strict laws of copy-right (mostly in the States) have killed creativity. If we were not aloud to toy with our favorite couple and ST-show, because of copy-right (I know, I know with disclaimer) this site and all the TnT fics would not be possible. The horror...

[honeybee]

Yes, and notice that every movie ever shown on movie night was a Paramount film! Coincidence? I think not.

Yes, it's in the big budget movies where we hear contemporary music.

[WarpGirl]

For me T'Pol is like Jazz incorperating many different things and influences while still retaining it's own heritage, idenities, and values. That's why I was so happy that she is a Jazz fan. Like Surak says, "We have differences, May we together, become greater than the sum of both of us."