Archer and Trip

[Dinah]

Many people feel that the friendship between Archer and Trip was one of the things they liked most about Enterprise. You see examples of that friendship in every season, but after season 1, then it basically disappeared. I like to ask questions, so here are a few:

Why did Archer bring Trip along? Because he wanted a friend on board? Because Trip was a great engineer? Because he felt he could control Trip? Or maybe Trip wasn't Archer's choice, but Starfleet's?

If Trip was Archer's buddy, why did he basically dump him in season 2 and start confiding in T'Pol? (Not TPTB's desire to try an Archer/T'Pol pairing, but Archer's reason.)

Why would Trip gravitate toward a friendship where Archer always had the upper hand? Did he think Archer could advance his career? Is he just the kind of person who needs to be needed? Did he recognize some of Archer's rough edges as a commander and figure he needed to be around to smooth the way for him?

What do we really know about the friendship between these two men? Why did it endure?

Maybe this is too much for a Saturday morning.

[Silverbullet]

Think it was Starfleets decision they probably took Archers request in to consideration but Trip was undoubtedly the best choice for Star Fleet as Chief Engineer as the best was needed on the first Earth Starship.

The friendshp seemed tobe one way, Trip extended his friendship and Archer just seemed to use it when ever he felt. He dumped trip too easily in favor of T-Pol both installing her in Trips legal place as FO and later i confiding in her rather than Trip.

Never got the feeling that there was a real Friendship between Archer and Trip. Archer would occasionaly pay lip service to it. invitig Trip to watch Water Polo with him and sharing some bourbon but Archer never came through when Trip really need help as in when his sister was killed. It was T-Pol who helped Trip not Archer. When Trip asked for a transfer Archer didn't really dig to find out the actual reason he just took Trip's first answer.

At least that is what my views are on your question.

[WarpGirl]

Dinah Awesome topic, now I will try not to get into trouble... I honestly believe that when Archer and Trip met, they genuinely liked each other. They do have a lot in common when it comes to Starfleet, and they are two guys who like to have a good time. I mean hey people who share careers will naturally be drawn together. So I think in the beginning at least I can see why they would mesh. However, as time passed I don't see it as a true BFF relationship.

For Trip's part, I think he was a young guy who aside from being serious about engineering was a young man who liked to have fun, and according to the show, Archer had quite the good-time guy thing down. So Trip would like to go out to have fun with the guys. Boys will be boys. But I also believe it had A LOT to do with Henry Archer as well. As an engineer Trip would idolize this man, and being close to his son well that's a bonus. Perhaps Archer would share some of his dad's private notes on engineering. So professional interest would definitely play a part of it. But Trip's professional life is hopelessly intertwined with his personal life, so I don't view it as calculated oppertunism.

Now when it comes to Archer, first of all he needed Trip. In order to get that warp 2 engine working he and AJ needed an engineer, the lead engineers weren't going to disobey orders. Trip was headstrong enough, to risk it. Also Archer isn't an unintelligent man, he knows brilliance when he sees it. Trip saw the flaw in the design of the engine when older, more experienced, people missed it. Not only that he figured out how to fix it. So Archer has a young engineering phenom willing to stick it to the Vulcans. This is of use to him. Slightly more oppertunistic than Trip's motives, but still he likes the kid, and he can cut loose with him.

So over the years it grows, and Archer just by virtue of being Henry Archer's son get a TON of pull in the Starfleet brass, he knows Trip is the best, he knows he's got Trip's undying loyalty, he knows, he owes Trip for even getting the warp 5 program off the ground. But I think there is an element of posessiveness as well, Archer is posessive of his people, both professionally and personally. Look at the way he picked the crew, he picked them as his. He wasn't going anywhere without his engineer. Trip became his engineer during the hiest of the warp 2 project.

I think most of season 2 was about Archer beginning to assert his posessiveness with T'Pol. He already had that with Trip he didn't need to constantly assert his presence in the relationship. And I don't necessarily believe it was a great relationship for Trip. Archer needs all the power, and that's not healthy. I think it's because he felt so powerless in losing his dad and Emory's son.

During seasons 3-4 Trip basically grows up, he no longer is going to give Archer the same power in their friendship. Which is why I think that it can't last in terms of best friends. Malcolm became that because he is Trip's eaqual in a personal relationship.

[Escriba]

I think that one of Archer's traits is emotional detachment. Which can be a good gift as a Captain, not being too involved with anybody on the ship. He doesn't let people get too near to him and maybe he's a little dense in the emotional level (observe how after he has somewhat a friendly relationship with T'Pol he isn't very observer, since he says "I'm sorry" when she tells him she's getting the divorce from Koss.)

Being that way is good for Trip. He isn't very open, not really. And Archer is perfect as a friend, because he won't dig too deep into his feelings. When Malcolm tries to make Trip open about Lizzie, Trip lashes out.

It's also true that Archer is the Captain, and as one, he can't play favorites. I think he's even more harsh with Trip than with the others because Trip is his friend. On the other hand, he tries to give more responsabilities to T'Pol that what she (probably?) deserves because he's trying to prove he is'n bigoted (which he is, but anyway...) And Trip being as loyal as he is, cuts Archer a lot of slack. I think Archer kind of takes Trip's friendship for granted. He isn't so wrong, because Trip actually puts off with almost everything.

So I must assume that Archer and Trip have the kind of relationship of two people that connect in the intellectual level and have some kind of "anti authority" vibe, but their more "intimate" part of the friendship suffers from that kind of detachment they share.

[WarpGirl]

I don't think Archer is emotionally attatched in command, three instances stick out... The Andorian Incedent, Detained, Cogenator, all of the command decisions he made in those episodes were guided by his own emotions and prejudices. So I can't say I believe he has emotional detatchment in command, like I said I think he likes control.

[Escriba]

Let me rephrase it: emotional detachment to others.

[WarpGirl]

Hmm possibly. I don't know if its detatchment or his control issues.

[Distracted]

Hmm possibly. I don't know if its detatchment or his control issues.

It certainly could be both.

[Escriba]

It's the same, really. If you have control issues is because you can't stand the idea of being vulnerable. The detachment is the same. If nobody comes too next to you, then you won't be hurt. To have this kind of detachment you must take control of everything. So, the two are related.

[WarpGirl]

Definitely a possiblity. He's certainly clueless though. I mean Trip is clueless to women, but Archer is clueless to people.

[Alelou]

That "I'm sorry" could have just been the only polite thing Archer could think to say, given how little he 'officially' knows about the situation. But I think Escriba gave an excellent analysis overall. The essential emotional detachment works for both of them.

I think Archer came down harder on Trip in Cogenitor because they were friends and it made him so uncomfortable to be put in that situation -- he felt betrayed and his reaction was excessive.

Archer clearly thinks of himself as Trip's mentor, which is reasonable given their difference in rank and experience. Trip is clearly okay with that, at least during the time we see him, though I think their relationship evolves a great deal by the end of season 4. It's to Trip's benefit to have Archer as his friend and S.O., but it's also probably fine with him on other levels. As someone else here has observed, maybe Evcake, he's more of a beta male as opposed to Archer the alpha male.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this friendship evolved into something quite detached eventually, if their careers separated. On the other hand, if they were sharing a road together, I think they'd still enjoy each other's company -- as long as nothing too emotionally intense came along.

[WarpGirl]

OK Please excuse my inner Anthropologist, but it needs to come out and play. OK I simply cannot see Archer as an Alpha Male. Ok yes, he's the captain but that alone does not a true Alpha Male make. A position of authority is not thedefining characteristic of an Alpha anything. Maybe only a Bones fan will understand what I'm saying... Help Escriba Dis anyone!

That being said I would totally agree with both lovely Escriba and Alelou if it wasn't for the fact that the friendship ENT tried to establish was stated to be an emotionally intimate one, in several episodes. That makes me worried of TPTB's concepts of emotional intimacy. This was never supposed to be a purely "intellectual" friendship. Which is why I said it can't survive the way it was presented in the show.

Also while Trip might not be able or perhaps willing to express himself emotionally to friends, he has an emotional awareness that Archer is completely without.

[Alelou]

Where was it portrayed as emotionally intimate? I'm curious.

I think that TPTB wanted Archer to be an alpha male, and kept trying early on at least to write him that way, although they also seemed quite conflicted about it and kept sabotaging their own efforts. I have to agree that Bakula doesn't really play that part in a particularly alpha way. Really, they even keyed into that issue with his role in the Mirror Universe. (What's the implication there? I don't really know because I hate those episodes, but is it some combination of he's too nice or too stupid to survive a system like that?)

Back to normal Ent, I would also say that Trip is much more emotionally aware of others than the average male. Not himself, mind you, just others.

[WarpGirl]

Well off the top of my head... Broken Bow, Fusion, The Crossing, and of course *the_abomination* all tried to convey an emotionally intimate relationship. Which didn't work at all IMHO. But I'll spare you the rant.

I'm not sure if it's that Trip is not aware of his own emotions or tries to convince himself they are different than what they are. But bottom line if I had to choose the true Alpha Male on ENT was Trip. Just my own opinion. As for the mirror universe, I wouldn't say Archer was the Alpha there either, I mean Hoshi and Travis killed him. Trip survived.

[Alelou]

Could you be more specific about what it was in those episodes that indicated emotional intimacy? Just hanging out watching games together or shooting the breeze or being aware when someone's grumpy doesn't really scream emotional intimacy to me. You can be friends without being really close.

For example, would Archer have talked to Trip about Erika unless he really needed to? I kind of doubt it. Would Trip have told Archer how he felt about T'Pol before he absolutely had to, or it became moot because Archer had figured it out? I doubt it.

But would they have bitched casually to each other about Season 1 and 2 T'Pol and Starfleet and the High Command and whatever on a daily basis? Hell, yeah. And really, neither of them had anyone else for that kind of thing.