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I read a book about writing that addressed the question: Happy endings or sad endings?

The author's personal preference was "natural consequences." I went hmmm . . . . Yes, that is a satisfying choice for me. So like Escriba says, you get the ball rolling with some outrageous situation and then figure how everyone would react and how it would "naturally" play out.

So what if Trip is stuck away from T'Pol during the pon far? Could happen . . . What if Lorian wants to mindmeld and his parents forbid it? Could happen . . . What if Trip and T'Pol marry and Trip ages faster than T'Pol? I really want to know how these things turn out, not how we miraculously avoid the distressing situation. All these conflicts have parallels with stresses people face in real life . . . Even the pon far. In earlier times before instant communication, a husband would leave and never be heard from again. Did he die? Is he delayed? Did he run off? What to do now?

Escriba said something in the Necessity thread that inspired this post.

I get frustrated with sad endings because I read for entertainment, not for the sociological/psychological exploration of consequences. This is reflected in my writing style. I generally set the scene, decide how the story will end, and then write to the ending, not the other way around. For those that take a different approach, I can see how they might accept a more "naturalistic" ending. I see enough natural endings in my line of work, though. Negative consequences happen, but that doesn't mean I want to spend my precious free time reading about them.

Honestly, I prefer Happy Endings 99.9% of the time for the reasons Dis mentioned. HOWEVER, sometimes a happy ending isn't aprropriate to the story an author tells. And I prefer a well-written, thoughtfully prepared, story to anything else.

Well, in my mind, even a sad Trip and T'Pol story is going to be kind of happy because Trip and T'Pol and crew are basically good people trying their best, so even under stressful circumstances we are not going to get betrayal and backbiting, which would be truely sad, but people pitching together and caring for each other. Sometimes a sad occurance or a big obstacle provides the opportunity for all this latent community spirit to go into action.

Hmm Backbiting and betrayal isn't sad. It's bad characterization! I think what annoys me about sad endings, is when you have a "Sad story" but it's only sad because the author doesn't want to look for ways where the outcome can be happy. For example, I don't usually like fics where baby Elizabeth lives because the fixes are too implausible for me, so her dying is something I can accept. But when an author decides TnT will try their hardest to move on together, but they're going to keep on being stubborn, not communicate, and basically sabotauge themselves. Then I don't like it. Is it realistic? Yeah. Is it necessary? NOPE! Not to say that those writers aren't good writers, of course.

All I ask is that the ending satisfies. Happy or sad, if it's believable and feels like an ending, then that's good for me.

There's probably no sadder story in TnT fanfiction than Infie's Determined, which is even set during *the_abomination*, but it's one of my all-time favorites. It's just beautifully written and rescues something incredibly poignant from that piece of crap.

Nit Pick. I believe that in Canon it is the Male who goes through PonFarr not the female. she just gets attuned to her males cycle. that is why the couple have the bond so the male can call the female to him when the Pon Farr isgoig to hit. If thati s so. then T-Pol cannot go through Pon Farr.

Canon is actually ambiguous on that. I think JT even asked the ST guru Richard Arnold about it at the last con we attended and he said as much.

Many of us have our own opinions about what WE think it is, but either approach can be canonical, thanks to the episode where our girl T'Pol goes into heat.

I don't see how canon can be ambiguious when they explain in Blood Fever how it works. And I don't see how Pon Farr by torture drugs counts. Oh well, back to the point, I'm with Alelou. If you must have a sad ending have it believable and have it make sense.

Distracted wrote:I get frustrated with sad endings because I read for entertainment, not for the sociological/psychological exploration of consequences. This is reflected in my writing style. I generally set the scene, decide how the story will end, and then write to the ending, not the other way around. For those that take a different approach, I can see how they might accept a more "naturalistic" ending. I see enough natural endings in my line of work, though. Negative consequences happen, but that doesn't mean I want to spend my precious free time reading about them.

I don't think better words can be added.

I find that statement just slightly odd actually, because I think Dis writes AMAZING stories about

...sociological/psychological exploration of consequences

So I don't understand what she means with that line.

Ohhh... I've inspired a thread, I feel so... full of myself

The happy ending or sad ending is a tricky question, actually. What do we consider "happy" or "sad"? Take Distracted's stories, for example. She says she writes "happy ending stories" and this is technically right, however "Charlie" could be seen as "sad" for some people. So, how do we measure "happiness" or "sadness"?

I feel that, in these days, what happens a lot of times with "sad" or "angsty" stories is that they're very "on the edge" (to be the opposite for the typical "Hollywood happy ending", I guess.) There is a movie called "Babel", I don't know if you've watched it. A lot of things go wrong in that movie, people make plenty of mistakes and this is taken like a brilliant portrait of "truthfulness." But I don't take it like that. I mean, things can go wrong, and they do it often in real life, but not so many things at once. If somebody has so much bad luck, s/he would end laughing histerically. It would turn into a comedy (most part of comedies tell very hard issues through a humorous glass, as you know.)

Of course, other times a sad ending is a requirement. Hamlet or Macbeth with a happy ending... they wouldn't be so memorable, somehow. Don Juan Tenorio with a happy ending for the main character would be ridiculous.

What do I consider an organic sad ending (as JustTripn put it), and such, necessary? Let's take two example of two quite known movies (to avoid spoilers I won't say the tittles.) The first (a remake of a French movie, I think) is about a man that comes back from the war. The wife doesn't recognizes him at first because he's somehow changed, but since a quite amount of years has passed, she takes his word. Time goes by and the man relinks with his wife and he begins a plantation with the neighbours. When everything looks happy and positive, the returned husband is arrested because he killed a man. The thing is that the returned husband... isn't really the returned husband, he's another man who took his identity. If he confesses, then he saves his life. But if he confesses, the contracts he signed would be invalid, the baby the wife expected would be illegitimate (it's the XIX century), a lot of damage would be done. If this was a French comedy written by Molière, the king would appear and save the day, but since this is a realistic story, the only way to end it without a Deus Ex Machina is to make the false husband not confess and sacrifice himself for everybody. Yes, the story could end happily if the man wasn't being arrested, but in this case the story would be dull and meaningless. The second movie is about a young couple. The woman cheats on her husband and he, a doctor, drags her to China because he wants to cure the Cholera. They have their arguments and differences, but after he discovers she's pregnant, they make up and seems like they're going to build a happy family and then he dies! Yes, they make up and in the next scene he dies

So the first is an organic ending and the second is a WHAT THE HELL!

I think I've made myself clear. Now, talk among yourselves

PS: By the way, did you know that in the classical theater the only difference between a comedy and a tragedy was that the first ended well and the second bad? Yes, not the humorous content of the play, but the ending. Curious.

Oh Escriba you are just too good at this really. But I have to say I didn't mind the Dr. dying too much in your second movie, I mean his wife didn't deserve him! But I would have liked it better if SHE died after having the baby, so he could find someone who did. But I totally agree with everything else. Sometimes you need a "bad ending" imagine if Othello turned out happily! Not Good.

Wow Escriba. I have nothing left to say. What a perfect example of an organic bittersweet ending, which works, versus a stupid sad ending that doesn't.

Whoops, I just thought of something. How a sad ending can be kind of happy or at least satisfying in the sense I was thinking of. The TV series "Six Feet Under" ending with a montage in which, ALL THE MAIN CHARACTERS DIE, in a flashforward, at different times and places. But in the process you learn that the couple that seemed to really love each other, but in the show had just made up after an infidelity, the husband dies of a heart attack while they are on a cruise ship (so you learn that they persevered, stayed together, and apparently made some money and enjoyed a nice retirement). In the gay couple, the one who was a security guard died in late middle age because he was shot (natural consequences) and at the funeral the couples adopted adult children are comforting the surviving spouse (you see the tight family). With the sister and her mentally ill brother, who have an unnaturally close relationship, she is still caring for him into his old age.The old lady who has just divorced her metnally ill husband, you learn that they remain "companions" till the end of their days. It was a strangely and appropriate ending to a show about a family of undertakers.

Yes, classically speaking the main difference between tragedy and comedy is that one ends with death and the other with marriage.