Andorian Reproductive Biology

[Distracted]

Sounds like "Medelian Genetics Gone Wild".

[aadarshinah]

I also have a version that works with only 3 sets of DNA:

Chan + Shen inserted into Zhan = Chan (with 66% of total quad genes)
Thaan + Shen inserted into Zhan = Thaan (with 66% of total quad genes)
Chan + Thaan + Shen inserted into Zhan = Shen (with 100% if total quad genes)
unfertilized Shen = Zhan (with 33% of total quad genes)

but I can't figure a way the zhan genes get anything out of it unless the shen and zhan are closely related - sisters, possibly matreline cousins. So I'm more inclined to think there are 4 sets of chromsomes.

too many years of genetics classes and arm-chair science books I guess.

[Distracted]

Now that one works with the Geekipedia entry I found. Cool. And you're driving trucks for a living?

[aadarshinah]

I will be, if I survive this week. But, originally, I was going to be a biochemist before I ran into some major issues with my college...

But, as in the movie version of Little Women... I should have been a great many things.

[Distracted]

Nothing wrong with being a truck driver. Truck drivers are the movers and shakers of the US food industry. No one would be able to have fresh produce without a garden in the back yard if not for truck drivers. Just seems like a waste of brainpower to me, that's all.

[aadarshinah]

Meh. Leaves me more time for this, I guess.

But, yeah, thinking on it, the 3 sets of chromosomes idea might work in fact, but would never work in real life I've decided. Genes are inherantly selfish. There is absoluetly no gain for a zhan's genes in the 3 chromsome idea because her genes would never be passed on. She'd be nothing more than a recepticle, primarily for the shen's DNA.

Now, if the shen and zhan were sisters - ie, the zhan's shen parent was the same as the shen's - it might work. 100% of the zhan's gene's would be passed along with each of her shen's child she carried to term. (A zhan would be an unfertilized shen's egg. The egg would, theoretically, carry 1/3 of the shen's DNA. No matter which way you split it, a zhan would have 100% of her sister shen's genes, and a shen would carry 1/3 of her zhan sister's. Genetically, a zhan would be as equally related to her shen sisters in this scheme as she would her shen mother).

But this only works if the zhan and shen are sibling or very closely related - no more distant than cousins, or, more specifically, the children of two shen sisters from the same quad pairing, for which the zhan cousin would be genetically identical to the shen cousin's sister. Beyond that, there's really nothing in it for the zhan unless you count on genetic altruisum and, frankly, altrusistic genes don't survive long enough to be passed on, and certainly not long enough for the speices to become spacefaring.

Simply put, the zhan has to contribute genetically to the quad, or else the idea falls apart. Thus the 4 sets of chromosomes. Ta Da.

[Distracted]

We need to tell the guy who wrote the Geekipedia article he's wrong, then. (And it had to have been a guy. A woman would have known that one male is all you need. Two would be entirely too much work. I wouldn't mind having a co-wife some days, though. )

[WarpGirl]

Um am I an idiot or something because I didn't take the "marrying in four's" to mean that it was a four-way marriage. Also its confusing because in *the_abomination* Shran said his daughter was his and Jhamel's child. Not the child he had concieved with co-mates. So none of this makes any sense. I'm thinking that canon is one thing, and the books are another.

At least I hope so, because while Andorians don't strike me as particularly monogomous, at least if Talas was telling that poor MACO the truth, (which to me is debatable because she and Shran were escaping) what Dis is describing is an absolute nightmare to try and understand. I'm a person who doesn't need scientific sense. My head hurts.

[Distracted]

Ah, but if we consider aadarshinah's hypotheses, you can see that it would be possible to determine which of the four partners actually contributed to the child's genetic makeup based on the gender of the child. Of course, if THIS were true:

Chan + Shen inserted into Zhan = Chan (with 66% of total quad genes)
Thaan + Shen inserted into Zhan = Thaan (with 66% of total quad genes)
Chan + Thaan + Shen inserted into Zhan = Shen (with 100% if total quad genes)
unfertilized Shen = Zhan (with 33% of total quad genes

then if the child was either of the two male genders you'd know that the same gender male fathered the child, whereas if the child were either of the two female genders then she would either be EVERYBODY'S child (if Shen) or conceived by the two females with no male input at all (if Zhan). Okay, now MY head hurts.

But wasn't Shran and Jhamel's love child in "The Abomination"? I thought we were throwing out that episode.

[WarpGirl]

Oh Dis I did extremely good in biology in school, and I like to think I haven't forgotten everything I knew, (but I admit its possible.) But I still like to think I could figure it out without a migraine if it could make sense. And I cannot reconcile Shran's daughter and four-gender reproduction. I mean the cogenitor was hard enough, but I managed. But what I saw in *the_abomination* doesn't add up.

[Distracted]

Hey, don't kill the messenger. I had no clue about all this stuff 'til I saw it on the Geekipedia site. I still have no idea where they got all that mess. I'm just trying to make sense of it, but it doesn't look like that's possible.

[WarpGirl]

Dis I'm totally not trying to kill the messenger I swear. You know you're my compadre around here.

[crystalswolf]

Because it was the first show that I know of that ever dealt with reproduction involving more than 2 individuals, I tend to compare all alien reproduction with Alien Nation. I think it's limiting and freeing at the same time.

In the Geekipedia description, using AN as a guide, I would guess it could work similar to this... Chan and Thaan merge their quarter of the genetic material with the Shen or Zhen. The Shen deposits her half (and any quarters if she has them) into the Zhen and the Zhen contains all required enzymes to create a viable zygote. The Zhen could be genetically (long-term) or hormonally (short-term) wired to want to do this. For what it's worth if you like the Geekipedia interpretation.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

You might find this entry about Andorian genders at Memory Beta helpful. It's a wiki for the mon-canon Trek works, such as novels.

[WarpGirl]

Why am I thinking about Seahorses?