Yowling Rant

[crystalswolf]

I'm sorry I brought up religion. I was so irritated I had to vent, but kind of regretted it when I left the house.

I don't have a problem with the material presented as a historical document to focus on the literary influences of the time, I would have been perfectly fine with that. BTW, it is "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" and I have no problem with it if it were an excerpt the class read together (her history class did this), but if the full sermon is going to be an entire lesson it must be done with care and I don't think it is careful with the wording of questions like:

"God can still be mad at you even if you do what?" and "How is God seen today as compared to the Puritans?" (someone raised as an atheist or in a polytheistic religion could not answer this question), or answer questions about the bible aloud.

We will definitely complain because we are concerned about how this teacher will approach the rest of the curriculum.

[Alelou]

If this first question was meant to be asked in the context of the piece I don't think it's really that bad except that it's obviously a kind of leading fill-in-the-blank question in which she's trying to prompt them to come up with the Calvinist ideas that undergirded Edwards' sermon. "How is God seen today" could also be answered by anyone, based on their experience of popular culture if nothing else -- it doesn't ask them how THEY themselves see God. It's reasonable to try to get them to compare the two era's typical concepts of God, since they have changed more than students probably realize. (Edwards would definitely have been horrified by God as portrayed by Morgan Freeman or George Burns.)

I think, honestly, that the teacher may simply have not been very careful about how she worded her questions. If she isn't actually pushing a particular religion in class, I wouldn't worry too much.

[Aquarius]

It's kind of hard to discuss history and literature, especially from certain periods, without discussing religion, since the church drove so many events and movements throughout time...and other movements and events were caused by a move away from the church. And that's just Christianity; there are other areas of history and literature that you can't really discuss without bringing Islam into it, because that was the driving force.

I wouldn't worry too much unless it seemed like the teacher seemed like she was endorsing a particular religion, as Alelou said, or if she was encouraging kids to pray or go to church or something. I may pull the teacher aside and ask her about the wording of the questions, though.

[crystalswolf]

The first question, if in the context of the piece, should have been "According to" otherwise the question assumes a true statement (which is what I meant by being careful). As for the second question, at least here, there are so many wildly different beliefs about God, including Christian denominations, that the question could not be answered by anyone unless they have their own interpretation or influence. And that goes for pop-culture as well. Trust me, if you do not have this perspective, you cannot answer this question without at least a mild bit of confusion.

I think each of the problems individually could be nothing more than a misstep but together they are more like a warning to get things straightened out immediately. Asking kids what they know from the bible seemed like something more befitting a Sunday School lesson (at least the way I remember it)

We had no plans to rain sulfur on the teacher but do plan on stating our concerns and have a healthy list of questions!

[Aquarius]

The best thing is, you're the kind of parent who gets involved. All the teachers I know--their biggest complaint is that it's hard to get parents to come to conferences, answer calls, etc. Good for you for taking the time!

The "according to" thing--she probably just took it for granted, because that's the material they were covering. Best guess.

[aadarshinah]

All I can say is, things like this make it glad I'm no longer taking biology classes. While I appreciate a good debate as much as the next person, there are only so many times you can deal with the whole intelligent design vs. evolution debate before you want to claw your eyes out, Oedipus style, no matter what side of the asile you sit on. I understand people have religous veiws. I understand that people are passionate about their beliefs. I understand wanting every side of the issue to be addressed. But, goodness, it gets tiredsome, and nothing ever gets accomplished and no one ever changes their opinions.

But, really, I'd only really start to worry if the teacher makes it a habit of asking her students these types of questions. Once, twice, maybe its a misunderstanding. More than that, I start thinking dark agendas and conspiracy theories...

[Alelou]

Not even subtle, sometimes. In sixth grade I had a spelling teacher in Clearwater who asked us to raise our hands if we accepted Jesus Christ as our personal savior.

I never respected him after that, but at least that twit did teach spelling. I had a basketball coach history teacher in high school I would gladly have suffered some prosletyzing from if he'd ever attempted to actually teach history. He'd just tell us what pages to read in the book and then sit there doing his own thing for the whole period.

[crystalswolf]

I dislike the argument too but when you have to enter the fray, you have to. Differences in religious beliefs was never an issue with me until I moved down here, but then it seemed almost unavoidable to become a little defensive otherwise some take it as an invitation to push and test their boundaries with your child. We've had some interesting experiences that have taught us to look for the warning signs.

[Aquarius]

I remember visiting my grandparents in Kentucky as a kid. Down there, anyone who meets you for the first time, their first question is, "What church do you go to?" It was annoying, but I only had to put up with it for a week or two at a time. I imagine it wouldn't have been so bad in a bigger city like Louisville, but where they lived, it was so small--not even a traffic light. "Town" was the four corners where the general store/gas station was. The kids even had to get on the bus at 5:30 in the morning because they had to go to school in the next town.

Basically, there was nothing *to* do there but go to church, so while I was annoyed, I also couldn't blame them for the fact that church consumed so much of their lives, or the assumption that it should consume mine, too, since it was the only game in town.

[Alelou]

My parents never bothered complaining, which may be because they considered Bible thumpers an inescapable part of the Florida environment, or maybe because their attitude towards our education was laissez faire at best. At any rate, I don't think they were worried that we might suddenly get saved when they weren't looking.

Scientologists worried them, though. (They set up a fake high school 'hang-out' across the street from Clearwater High School in an attempt to entice students into the cult.)

I had the opposite problem when I was a high school teacher in NH -- a parent came in distressed that I had allowed the students to write short stories, and a few of them had chosen to write horror stories. This was allowing students to promote satanic practices, according to this parent. His twin boys sat there looking quietly horrified while he lectured me about it. I don't even remember how I resolved that, but it ended up amicably.

[aadarshinah]

I still take perverse pleasure remembering my 12th grade english teacher's reaction when I told her I was writing my term paper on Rushdie's The Satanic Verses. Good times...

[crystalswolf]

We came here with the full knowledge that this is the Bible Belt. There was/is no intention of changing the system but we made the conscious decision and effort to not have our daughter pressured into a religion whether from us or others. She's experienced several POVs, though, in small bites. We've come across interesting (I'm being kind here) experiences because of this way of raising her.

We expected some of this to spill into the school and were ready to compromise that our daughter not participate and either receives an alternate assignment or allowed to read or finish other schoolwork. Our first encounter with this resulted in a bouncy, friendly person transforming into a sour-faced, stiff-bodied grump that walked away in a huff. Now thinking about it, they reminded me of Ent ep 1 Vulcans.

The deeper you get into the heart of the city, the less this becomes an issue but the school systems are in rough shape. We try to volunteer when we can, we let the teachers know when they are doing a good job as far as our daughter's concerned, but the down side for them is that we will also let the teachers know when we have a problem with something too and try to work something out.

[Aquarius]

I think a lot of people are confused, too, and believe that the founding fathers wanted freedom *of* religion, but it was rather freedom *from* religion, which is a whole 'nother thing. One means "do whatever you want." The other one means "do whatever you want, just leave other people alone." A lot of people get tripped up by that "leave other people alone" thing.

[aadarshinah]

My philosophy is: if you're not hurting yourself or anyone else, who cares?

Unfortunately, a lot of people take it a little too literally and claim I'm hurting myself by not subscribing to their beliefs, as I'll burn in hell or something of the like, but it's a start.

[Aquarius]

^ You would've loved my paper on Macbeth last semester. My thesis statement was that the play was written to be anti-Pagan propaganda/pro-Christian public service announcement.