I Just Rewatched ____ and Noticed ____

[CoffeeCat]

I've always wondered why they couldn't have the same scenarios play out in the *real universe* and why TPTB were always so afraid to deal with the consequences. I usually get the best story ideas dealing with residual angst that TPTB would gloss over, ignore, and/or RESET.

Also, I think it's interesting that sometimes in reset ending scenarios, the characters seem more likable. I've wondered why two main cast characters could get married to each other in an AU but in the RU, TPTB say *no way* (they didn't just do this with Trip/T'Pol)- like, don't they want to see their characters grow and change and learn life lessons that their fan base can relate to?

[CX]

I think they're too afraid to do things in the RU because there's the risk that it won't be well-received, or at least that's what the networks and producers are afraid of. That's why all the more interesting ideas tend to end up in AU and reset button episodes specifically because there is no fall-out left over from anything they do. Which is also why they go nuts and kill everyone and blow up the ship.

Edit: Something I noticed about Twilight though that tends to get glossed over by certain people is that T'Pol definitely had her own bed and sleeping area on Ceti Alpha V. You can see it in the background behind T'Pol along the left side of the screen when they're talking about how their "relationship" has "evolved."

[CoffeeCat]

Yes, but you'd think that maybe *someone!important(tm)* might actually step back from the situation and realize that it only makes them a self-fulfilling prophecy and victims of their own corporate whore mongering. From the bottom of the totem pole, the cycle does look easy to break, but everyone who is something is just too close to the situation, I guess.

[blacknblue]

The people who make the business decisions are not the creative ones. The creative ones do not have authority over the business decisions. Deciding the long term direction that the show will go in is a business decision, a PR decision, not a creative one.

[JadziaKathryn]

Sadly, bnb is right. But I also think that the writers sometimes suffer from a fear of committment.

But the thing is, I really didn't need to see any of it. Future Guy already laid everything out in The Expanse and we've had at least one reminder in every episode between then and Twilight.

And yet, I believe it was the very next episode where the crew all but said, "We can put saving the entire planet on hold to teach kidnapped humans to put aside hate." Riiight. Nice idea, and "North Star" was a good episode otherwise, but it just didn't fit as the kind of interlude you'd taken when on a very crucial mission to save your whole planet!

[CoffeeCat]

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

TPTB don't like to change things too much on a show because they're still caught in the old episodic formula. If things change too drastically over time (like a couple hooking up) they think it will confuse viewers, especially new and/or casual viewers that don't watch everything from week to week.

But the thing is that viewing audiences have changed. There are now a lot of shows that have larger story arcs and character developments. For science fiction Babylon 5 was a pioneer. It took the Trek franchise a while to catch up. They did with ENT season 3 and 4. But I recall that the creative team on DS9 had to constantly fight TPTB to have more story arcs. The suits wanted to scale down on the Dominion war, but the writers didn't. That's why there are so many inexplicable non-arc episodes even when there's supposed to be a freaking WAR going on.

[HopefulRomantic]

In storytelling, characters forced into crisis situations reveal things about themselves that they wouldn't normally reveal. Perhaps writers gravitate toward the "what-if" scenarios because they are a great way to put their characters into the kinds of crisis situations that can't be used in the "real world" of the series, because TPTB don't want to take the show in that direction, or it's not practical, or whatever. So with something like Twilight, we can see this worst-case scenario play out, getting worse and worse--the captain removed from command, Enterprise crippled, Earth destroyed, humanity decimated--and see these people reacting to the crisis. What if T'Pol has to choose between letting the Xindi overrun the ship, and crippling the ship in order to stop the invasion? What if Trip's grief and need for vengeance don't have T'Pol or Archer to temper it? What if T'Pol spends years with Archer, this friend she respects and trusts, reminding him and herself every day of what happened? How would her feelings for him evolve?

Twilight reminded me of that Bradbury story, I think it's called "A Sound of Thunder," about how a guy stepping on a butterfly can change the history of the universe. Crichton made a movie of it recently, which makes sense, since he dealt so much with chaos theory in Jurassic Park. But anyway, I saw it as a character study pivoting on the consequences of a single event, that anomaly wave...not really as an episode about the failure of the war.

In Twilight we see the characters (T'Pol first and foremost, I think) explored and tested in ways that they can never be in the conventional Enterprise arena. And even if they don't remember it by the end, we remember what they might do, what they are capable of. That's what is compelling about these stories for many viewers, and probably for the people who write the stories.

[Dinah]

I think another thing to consider is the legacies of shows like Moonlighting and Northern Exposure which had a strong "will they-wont' they" component. Once the main characters entered into a sexual relationship or marriage, the writers don't seem to know what to do with them and the shows falter. Trip and T'Pol's marriage might have really worked on a variety of different levels, but the producers are gun shy about removing the "spark" in the relationship. I guess they figure don't want to see an old married couple. Dumb.

[Mitchell]

I think they're too afraid to do things in the RU because there's the risk that it won't be well-received, or at least that's what the networks and producers are afraid of. That's why all the more interesting ideas tend to end up in AU and reset button episodes specifically because there is no fall-out left over from anything they do. Which is also why they go nuts and kill everyone and blow up the ship.

Edit: Something I noticed about Twilight though that tends to get glossed over by certain people is that T'Pol definitely had her own bed and sleeping area on Ceti Alpha V. You can see it in the background behind T'Pol along the left side of the screen when they're talking about how their "relationship" has "evolved."

Beleave I pointed that fact out before. With pics.

I for one have no real love for any of the AU/reset episodes. Hell the only two parts of any Trek Reset episodes I ever liked are seeing the Enterprise-C, An ofcourse Archer kickin the bucket in Twilight. Although that didnt happen soon enough for me.

[panyasan]

[quote="Elessar"]This is a little idea I had because once or twice I have posted a thead or a comment in some random thread about how I just re-watched Northstar or just rewatched Similitude or some such thing (related to Trip and T'Pol) and I just noticed _____.

I don't know if a lot of people out there find themselves re-watching the episodes but perhaps the idea will spurn some interest into doing so because as I sat down and rewatched Extinction, I noticed for the first time.

In the opening scene, Trip gives T'Pol the Geogia peaches and she says that it won't make up for having missed two previous sessions... If you watch her eyes as she takes a bite into the peach, she actually begins to smile briefly. It's not a huge movement, but with T'Pol (and Jolene) even the tiniest perturbations are exceptional. When she then chides him for missing two sessions, you can see the 'you were late for our date' look in her face too

I thought I was the only one how saw the smile....

[panyasan]

I noticed the same about "twilight" - She's such a good actress and you can just TELL she was probably deliberately trying to give the audience the impression that T'Pol had very little interest in Archer romantically. I also got the same impression from watching *the_abomination*.

Exactly, CoffeeCat. The way TPol is inwardly upset when Trip is upset in season 4 is for me also an indication of the feelings for him (and how much is hated it to be in such angst situations with him).
And about *the_abomination*, I can say this is the only tv show how still makes me angry and upset after almost two years and stop me watching Star Trek all together, but the only thing that makes me smile about this episode is a picture of *the_abomination* with Archer and Tpol. The text under this picture says Archer and Tpol share a intimate moment, but look at the body language of Tpol, her arms are crossed and against her body and she is leaning back wards...
In body language terms, she is backing off and putting some distance... making her point very clear.. Sometimes I am just very proud of Tpol...

[panyasan]

I really like the fact that Archer and Reed seemed to see T'Pol's Vulcanness first, lusted after her femininity second and then respected her for her intelligence and expertise lastly, where as Trip saw T'Pol's Vulcanness first, respected her intelligence and expertise second and, only after T'Pol was making it blatantly obvious that she was attracted to him, allowed himself to feel and react on his attraction to her. He is shown to be very respectful of her culture in that area. You also never get the idea that Trip lusted after T'Pol in the way that Reed and Archer did,

Well, Trip sees Tpol as a person, not a object or a Vulcan. That is why i like their relationship and dislike the Archer-Tpol relationship. It is difficult to be friends with some one how does not like your culture and is not interested in your personally. I could not been friends with some one like that, I could work with some one like that. IMPOV Tpol and Archer as people who work together and some times work together friendly.

[panyasan]

Sorry guys, i wanted to make one post, but i am already happy i can use quote one at the time..

[Asso]

Dinah, panyasan

I echo your thoughts!