Why the Trip abuse?

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Well, I haven't read the latest fics (yet) so I'll just talk in general terms. While the "will they, won't they" angst got overboard in season 4 (I could sort of accept it up until Daedalus) I think that they arrived at an understanding, a couplehood of sorts, after Bound. And Terra Prime struck me as being hopeful, despite the tragedy of the loss of Elizabeth. So I would find it hard for them to walk down the "will they, won't they" dance again after that. That is one of the many reasons *the_abomination* is unbelievable. In whatever medium (novels, fanfics), I would like to see them move forward with their relationship post-TP. Yeah, there is a pattern of this dance shown in canon before, but it defies comprehension that they would keep at it more or less indefinitely.

Just my two Swedish ?ren!

[justTripn]

Rigil said: Politically correct men aren't supposed to open doors for the ladies, or treat them with respect, or have a backbone and like blowing shit up and drinking beer.

I clearly live in a different universe. SIGH!

And I am going to have to take the opposite side in the "Is Trip emotionally well-adusted" debate. YES! He seems just fine to me! At least until he practically commits suicide in *the_abomination*, . . . but that doesn't count.

[justTripn]

The reason that Trip can continue to get along with Archer, despite Archer yelling at him is that Trip is able to say to himself (but not out loud) "well he's wrong" or even "he's right" or "he's under a lot of pressure" or "he has to say that, he's the captain" and it doesn't seem to hurt Trip's self-esteem over the long run. I think he counts on an an underlying freindship that is still there despite everything. He seems to take some liberties with the captain similar to or even beyond some of the other Captain/sidekick relationships. They seem more familiar than Picard/Riker.

[justTripn]

KTR says they should move forward with their relationship. No more will they or won't they after after some point--Like Terra Prime. Yes, but not in constant wedded bliss.

So theire is still room for some personal drama/interesting interactions for the stories . . . They will still have some tension in their relationship because they are both strong personalities and like to argue. Lorian stated that they had a loving, if somewhat contentious relationship. That's what I would like to see in the fics in which they are an established couple. I also like to see that they have broader concerns beyond each other--engineering projects, the Romulan war, children, whatever. As they get older, and they are doing their jobs, and raising children, the status of their "bond" will become more of a background issue.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

KTR says they should move forward with their relationship. No more will they or won't they after after some point--Like Terra Prime. Yes, but not in constant wedded bliss.

I never said I wanted "wedded bliss". I realize that there should be a lot of other difficulties for them after they get together. That's what I'd like to see more now that they're past the "will they, won't they" dance.

So theire is still room for some personal drama/interesting interactions for the stories . . . They will still have some tension in their relationship because they are both strong personalities and like to argue. Lorian stated that they had a loving, if somewhat contentious relationship. That's what I would like to see in the fics in which they are an established couple. I also like to see that they have broader concerns beyond each other--engineering projects, the Romulan war, children, whatever. As they get older, and they are doing their jobs, and raising children, the status of their "bond" will become more of a background issue.

Exactly what I mean. Although I wouldn't bring on any T'Rugrats as long as they're serving on a ship, or fighting the Romulan war, or stuff like that.

[Rigil Kent]

I guess - in retrospect - I'm probably overreacting a bit. I mean, these are fictional characters, after all, and based on the numerous AinT fics out there, clearly subject to different interpretation than mine. Hell, based on how the characters are interpreted by other TnT fans makes that pretty clear! One thing that does seem to really stand out to me is the clear divide in opinion in this issue between genders. I suppose it's not that surprising since we're wired so differently and all.

I suppose that my ongoing real life issues probably played a factor in me starting this thread; I'm sure it comes as no surprise to everyone here that I've been far from ... okay for a while. That isn't meant to sound like I'm making an excuse or anything, merely a comment about my state of mind (or lack thereof, if you will).

And I never meant to sound like I was getting pissed off over the fics, although, glancing over my comments, it does occasionally look like that. I guess that borderline depression plus frustrated annoyance plus lack of inspiration/motivation/etc. easily lend themselves to anger. *shrug*

I'm probably done with this thread (even if I was the one starting it and all) since I've made my points and don't want to appear like someone trying to start an argument. Thanks for the comments, and (far more importantly) thanks for staying civil about the subject.

[Distracted]

You're welcome, dear.

[Bether6074]

Rigil, your signature...you don't really believe that, do you? I hope not. You never know when things might start looking up.

I look at it this way. Trip is flawed and that's okay. It makes him more real. But just because he is flawed doesn't mean he isn't worthy of love or that he isn't tough in many other respects. I honestly think that Trip appeals to so many of us, both men and women, because we can relate to him. He isn't perfect. He tries to do the best he can. And that's all we can ask for out of anyone...their best.

[Rigil Kent]

Rigil, your signature...you don't really believe that, do you? I hope not. You never know when things might start looking up.

It was something I heard on a video game (Warhammer 40K, actually) and I liked the sound of it. I was running around with another sig from that game for a while that was "There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt." I've got a rep as a misanthrope to maintain...

[Reanok]

The reason anyone can relate to Trip is that he does have flaws he's human complex and makes mistakes that's why we like him so much . Because anyone sees that's one of the reasons T'Pol's is attracted to Trip and alot more things going on under the surface as well.He hides alot of things behind a mask as does T'Pol.Why their so fascinating to watch as a couple.

[Bether6074]

It was something I heard on a video game (Warhammer 40K, actually) and I liked the sound of it. I was running around with another sig from that game for a while that was "There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt." I've got a rep as a misanthrope to maintain...

Oh, I see. The misanthrope reputation. Well, if I happen to hear any new cynical quotes, I'll be sure to pass them on to you.

[Rigil Kent]

Is the new one better for you?

[Bether6074]

Umm...yeah, I think so. It might be difficult to argue with those words of wisdom.

[Bookworm]

I just joined this forum today and found this discussion very interesting.

I'm trying to write my first series of fics and in one part I'm trying to write what happens to Trip and T'Pol after the events of the episode "Bound". The whole series of fics is actually a crossover with farscape universe and Enterprise, but I'm trying to write some parts a bit more separate from that overall theme so that those can be also standalone fics. So this after "Bound" part I have found really hard to write and I have already three different unfinished versions. I'm actually struggling with just the things that have been discussed here.

I also like to think that the events in the end of the episode are telling us that they are finally ready to start to move forward in their relationship, but in my opinion T'Pol still has some issues to work with herself, because it still was a bit like pulling theet to get her to admit things to Trip. I don't see the one kiss as being enough to fix anything, just a start. I also think that there has already been enough pushing Trip away and pulling him back movement in the episodes so I don't want to continue that especially into a direction that would make Trip look like a weak pushover. My interpretation of the situation between them is that Trip is finally starting to leave behind him the pain that he has been carrying around from all the times T'Pol has been pushing him away and is finally starting to see T'Pol as she is and not as he would like to see her. With T'Pol I don't really think the problem is that she is Vulcan, but that she tries to be Vulcan but has just started to figure out what that means and what she wants. And that she hides herself behind that image of her interpretation of a vulcan. I also see Trip as the stronger person at this point of time. So the core of my problem is how well do I make Trip figure T'Pol out and does T'Pol need Trips help to grow and to make decissions and if so does he do that by being more confrontational and demanding or being more subtle and maybe even a bit devious in a good way. And is there going to be some influence from others too and what about the Kir'Shara what has T'Pol learned from it. In the next episodes especially in "Terra prime" it seems to me that there has been a change and that T'Pol has finally been able to come into terms with everything and that their relationship has evolved.

[Elessar]

I look forward to reading your stuff here!