"Divergent Paths" Discussion

[WarpGirl]

I admit I'm still bitter. But in my defense it's a week today since I got dumped. I'm sure someone here will tell me it wouldn't be normal human behavior to be rational quite yet. Then again I don't believe in the concept of normal human behavior. I believe in acceptable and not acceptable human behavior. So I'll just say that men are infinitely more confusing than women. And maybe most of them could stand to wake up a little more.

I think Trip would have had it much easier if he payed attention more to what T'Pol wasn't saying, and what she was doing. Especially in Rigil's tale.

[Alelou]

I think Trip would have had it much easier if he payed attention more to what T'Pol wasn't saying, and what she was doing. Especially in Rigil's tale.

Yeah, you can still be bitter. But I don't follow you here. He's supposed to pay attention to what she isn't saying? How the heck do you that?

Eh, don't worry about it. I have to go wrestle with Excel to figure out grades for two classes (and then I'm done, hoorah).

[Rigil Kent]

Rigil, I have a confession completely unrelated to anything we're discussing here.

Everytime I see your avatar I think, "Is that Rigil Kent in drag?"

Panyasan is correct: it's the lovely Cote de Pablo, who plays Ziva David on NCIS, whom I like very much (even if the show itself has ruined her character alongside the other characters.)

Also, I discovered a slight error in the last three installments. Me, being an idiot, I had them listed as taking place during August, 2152, when my timeline document very clearly tells me that they were occurring in September. Yeah, it might not seem like that big a deal but ... March 2153 is right around the corner...

[Rigil Kent]

On a totally unrelated note, I was wondering why Trip couldn't figure out that T'Pol was interesting in him.

In chapter 25, I posited a potential answer to this: he's insecure. No, I get how you might go "huh? Trip was one of the most social characters on the show," but bear with me. The actual lines themselves are from T"Pol's POV about Trip and read:

It had taken her nearly six months aboard Enterprise to comprehend that he never did things halfway, another two to realize that his appearance of unprofessionalism was an illusion designed to conceal intense self-doubt, and yet another month and a half to discover that even the captain seemed unaware of his friend's deep-rooted insecurities. Few humans seemed willing to look beyond the surface, to notice how Charles always made himself available to others while carefully hiding the truth about his own fears and worries.

So I see him as a mild introvert by nature (probably because he's usually the smartest person in the room; this explains why he plays up the "aw, shucks" good ole boy routine so people don't take umbrage to his brilliance), who has forced himself to act like an actual extrovert for so long it's become second nature. Look at the three people he gravitated toward throughout the show: Archer, who showed us in season 3 and 4 that he was a loner by nature as well; T'Pol, who as both a Vulcan and something of a misfit in her own culture was very much a loner; and Malcolm, who was also something of an introvert until Trip started drawing him out. Like seeks like.

But that's just my opinion.

[WarpGirl]

Rigil I concur I concur! We have something in common! Everything's shiny Cap'n!

Alelou it's a scientific fact that communication is less than 20% verbal. By instinct people are motivated to look for what we don't tell each other. The problem is people ignore their instincts and focus on words too much. Words are not the end all and be all of communication. TnT's major problem is that they only "hear" what they expect to hear. Neither of them pay the least bit of attention to what the other one is actually saying.

[Alelou]

But surely if regular words are tricky, nonverbal communication is going to be even trickier between two different species? Never mind adding in different sexes -- because men and women do NOT communicate in the same way.

Rigil has a new chapter up and I'm feeling mollified.

However, I don't have time to review it properly until I finish grading that last class...

[panyasan]

On a totally unrelated note, I was wondering why Trip couldn't figure out that T'Pol was interesting in him.

In chapter 25, I posited a potential answer to this: he's insecure. No, I get how you might go "huh? Trip was one of the most social characters on the show," but bear with me. The actual lines themselves are from T"Pol's POV about Trip and read:

It had taken her nearly six months aboard Enterprise to comprehend that he never did things halfway, another two to realize that his appearance of unprofessionalism was an illusion designed to conceal intense self-doubt, and yet another month and a half to discover that even the captain seemed unaware of his friend's deep-rooted insecurities. Few humans seemed willing to look beyond the surface, to notice how Charles always made himself available to others while carefully hiding the truth about his own fears and worries.

So I see him as a mild introvert by nature (probably because he's usually the smartest person in the room; this explains why he plays up the "aw, shucks" good ole boy routine so people don't take umbrage to his brilliance), who has forced himself to act like an actual extrovert for so long it's become second nature. Look at the three people he gravitated toward throughout the show: Archer, who showed us in season 3 and 4 that he was a loner by nature as well; T'Pol, who as both a Vulcan and something of a misfit in her own culture was very much a loner; and Malcolm, who was also something of an introvert until Trip started drawing him out. Like seeks like.

But that's just my opinion.

Yes, I remember you mentioned Trips insecurity in chapter 25, it made me buy certain behaviour of Trip in Div. Path. I agree on your analysis, but I like to point out it only one side of Trip. I think in severe circumstance like they are in every side of you will surface - even the one's you don't like. About those circumstances: you painted the horrors of war so well, and on the other side keeping distance that is needed for the reader, so we are not drowned in violence, but still can feel. It's Kokoro kara (from the heart) as you say in Japanese. It's hard for me to explain, I hope I make sense.

[WarpGirl]

But surely if regular words are tricky, nonverbal communication is going to be even trickier between two different species? Never mind adding in different sexes -- because men and women do NOT communicate in the same way.

I never said it was easy, love isn't supposed to be easy. If commitment and love were easy the divorce rate wouldn't be 50% for your average everyday humans. However neither Trip or T'Pol paid much attention to non-verbal communication and bungled up the verbal with assumptions, and collectively made asses out of themselves. Off to drool over the new chapter...

Rigil Absolutely brilliant! It was such a perfect characterization of Trip.

[Rigil Kent]

Totally forgot this... Escriba squared me away a while back.

[WarpGirl]

Good golly Jeeze that is so wicked cool! You know you've made it if the lovely Escriba gives you such an awesome gift. And it is well deserved Rigil. Escriba just beautiful. You rock!

As I said before congrads on such a lovely installment Rigil.

[WarpGirl]

Well another chapter... I have to admit to being a tad disappointed, Cease Fire is actually an episode I very much liked. Yes Rigil I actually like some things... The truth is I adored Shran and Soval, and I really thought that episode was all sorts of wicked cool. Even Tarah (played by the incomparable Suzy Plaxton) was wonderful, although she was a traitor...

So I am disappointed that there was no Shran... And the focus was once again Travis and Princess Fishstick, with the "bigger man" competition between Archer and Soval. It didn't really add anything to the depth of either of the two tales you are so wonderfully crafting. I just didn't "get" what you are trying to do with this chapter. Maybe it will make sense later.

The story is still shiny though, and I still believe you're bloddy brilliant.

[Rigil Kent]

One: I think this thread is supposed to be for discussion that is above and beyond what can be covered by reviews. If you want to simply review, please do so at the appropriate place - I deactivated the "logged in" requirement for anonymous reviews at fanfiction.net a long time ago (even though that doesn't give the author an opportunity to respond directly to the reviewer and it can be abused by trolls who just want to complain or insult the author or the story like I've seen.) So if you're going to leave a review, I'd prefer you did it there.

Two: I didn't show the events of "Singularity" or "Precious Cargo" either, but rather the aftermath. The intent is not to rewrite the episode - we already know what happens during it so I'm giving the reader the benefit of the doubt and presuming that they can use their imagination to fill in the blanks. I liked "Cease Fire" as well which why I didn't try to rewrite it. This fic is primarily a Trip/T'Pol story, and if I rewrote "Cease Fire" (or any other canon episode), it would be multiple chapters in length (or a story unto itself.)

And the focus was once again Travis and Princess Fishstick, with the "bigger man" competition between Archer and Soval.

To which I have to ask: are you sure you actually read it? The focus was on Archer and showing [A] how disconnected he's become, [B] that he's suffering from a mild case of PTSD himself (survivor's guilt), and [C] that he and Soval are finding their equilibrium. There was no "bigger man" competition between him & Soval going on in this chapter at all, but rather them agreeing to work together - without words - to keep Travis aboard ENT.

It didn't really add anything to the depth of either of the two tales you are so wonderfully crafting.

And I contest that assessment entirely. This chapter is intended to highlight and hint at Archer's current difficulties. I think it more likely you simply did not understand the point.

[WarpGirl]

Woah OK I appologize I'll never say anything again.

[Rigil Kent]

Woah OK I appologize I'll never say anything again.

What? I was replying to your comments and pointing out my intent. Not saying you shouldn't say anything.

No offense was intended.

[WarpGirl]

<sigh> OK I guess it kind of stung because you asked me if I read the chapter. My main question is why you felt the need to rehash Archer's survior's guilt? Over the course of the story you've dealt with his emotions with incredible skill. But this chapter it seemed reduntant. His thoughts are repetative (which is normal in his condition) however I already knew he's a bit messed up from this. Perhaps I felt like I had already been there done that, I'm waiting for the big blow up.

As for Travis and fishstick, I don't honestly believe they'd even attempt to make him an ambassador. He's too young, knows nothing about politics that we have seen, and if the only reason Starfleet wants him to do it is because he bedded her well... I know it was common during ancient times up to the 19th century but in the 22nd it just seems far fetched. I guess I don't see Precious Cargo making such a huge impact.

As for ff.net there are very good reasons I don't use it anymore. Would you be willing for me to PM if I wan't to write a review?