Kind of wife TPol would be?

[justTripn]

I was looking at old family pictures the other day and I found like a 35 year old picture of my sister wearing a T-shirt that said, "A Women's place is in the House . . . And the Senate." She had made it her self with iron-on letters and a blank T-shirt. At that time, it was a radical statement, and raised some eyebrows, especially among our church friends. lol . . .

And yes, I can sing all the verses of "I am Woman Hear Me Roar." I CAN remember the bad old days and I'm not nostalgic for them.

[Aquarius]

Well, she was seen being Vulcan-nice to the kids in the episode on Travis's family's ship. And Vulcans are very attached to their kids.

I'm guessing she's be very affectionate toward her children, but in her Vulcan way. When I wrote my only story that shows TnT as parents (The Little Miracle), I had them as a united disciplinary front when it came to their rebellious daughter. It would be natural to see Trip as the permissive one and her as the disciplinarian, but I don't think they'd let it shake down that way. I think they'd be too smart for that, and they'd work together as a team.

Y'know, I was giving this some thought...and while it does make sense that T'Pol would be the disciplinarian and Trip be the permissive one...being that Trip's human, he's also the one who'd totally freak if his kid brought home a bad report card or got caught ditching school. He may be more easygoing most of the time...but I wonder if T'Pol may be the go-to parent when there's trouble, even though she's got the logic and discipline thing going, just by virtue of the fact that it's a given she won't yell.

[Silverbullet]

I was a house husband for 13 years. I did it all. Cleaning, dusting, laundry, shopping, cooking. banking, you name it. didn't kill me. I had been a bachelor until I was 34 so I had experience. Military teaches a lot of self care that way.

You have to remember that standing at a machine all day on a shop floor doing the same damned thing hour after hour day after day is not fun. Many men lead what is called quiet lives of desperation because they were blue collar worker with little education. but that was the time when blue collar jobs wre plentiful. Not everybody has the advantage of a famaily who can afford a college education for the kids or at least enough financial help to get started until the kid can find a job to help pay for college. Men wren't all that free either if they were Blue Collar.

My parents had to quit school in the eigth grade. It so embarrased my father than he rarely spoke so he woudn't expose his lack of education. He wasn't stupid just uneducated but he felt stupid because of it. Men were trapped too.

[Alelou]

That's certainly true.

[honeybee]

Y'know, I was giving this some thought...and while it does make sense that T'Pol would be the disciplinarian and Trip be the permissive one...being that Trip's human, he's also the one who'd totally freak if his kid brought home a bad report card or got caught ditching school. He may be more easygoing most of the time...but I wonder if T'Pol may be the go-to parent when there's trouble, even though she's got the logic and discipline thing going, just by virtue of the fact that it's a given she won't yell.

You're so right. She'd react to the situation, whatever it was, by asking herself and the child why they did what they did. She'd try and logic out the motivations and find solutions. Not to stereotype human fathers, but my experience with them is that logic and reason aren't the first things they reach for when their kid decides redecorate the living room with crayons or smashes up the car. When the Alec Baldwin yelling at his kid voice mail came out a few years back, one comedienne quipped: "What kind of dad yells at their kid that way? Every dad in the world."

That said, I think with T'Pol around, Trip would at least try and be even tempered.

On the other hand, It'd be Trip would be okay with Pizza in front of the viewscreen if T'Pol was out of town.

[justTripn]

I was a house husband for 13 years. I did it all. Cleaning, dusting, laundry, shopping, cooking. banking, you name it. didn't kill me. I had been a bachelor until I was 34 so I had experience. Military teaches a lot of self care that way.

You have to remember that standing at a machine all day on a shop floor doing the same damned thing hour after hour day after day is not fun. Many men lead what is called quiet lives of desperation because they were blue collar worker with little education. but that was the time when blue collar jobs wre plentiful. Not everybody has the advantage of a famaily who can afford a college education for the kids or at least enough financial help to get started until the kid can find a job to help pay for college. Men wren't all that free either if they were Blue Collar.

My parents had to quit school in the eigth grade. It so embarrased my father than he rarely spoke so he woudn't expose his lack of education. He wasn't stupid just uneducated but he felt stupid because of it. Men were trapped too.

Good point.

[Aquarius]

They may have been trapped by economics and education, but they still made the rules. Women of the same socioeconomic class had it worse. Until recently, it's been a white man's world here in the US.

And realistically we're dealing with a fictitious setting where gender barriers no longer exist. Race barriers either for that matter.

[Alelou]

Poverty pretty much sucks all around for both sexes, and still does.

[Silverbullet]

Aquarius. when I ws born in 1935, the demographics of the U.S. was: 80 percent Wite Nortern European stock, five percent black and five percent of the rest (Oriental, Mexican, Southern European, etc. It WAS a White world. All of the traditions, cultural heritage, Law was based on the English law, The bulk were either English, Scandinavian, the rest of Northern and Eastern European. Many Poles, and of course the Irish. I may have somme of the ten percent mixed up but five percent were Black. that is not a large Number compared to the 80 percent White. Everyone then was too busy trying to get by to worry about anyone else.

You say women fought. What about the Men who fought for the Unions, Work place safety, a decent wage, those were tugh battles. Lots of men died at the hands of Plant Police and strike breaking Troops. Pitched batttles wre fought. Many today wouldn't have the decent life they do have if those Men hadn't fought and died. Those men fought against child Labor too. Kids as young as 10 working in Mills and Mines dying by being caught in machhines and in unsafe mines.

Peope condmn the Unions. well today they are bad becaus they have fallen in to the hands of the Mob. But go back before the Unions and see what kind of world the working man and his family had. Men fought too.

[Aquarius]

And how long was it before women were allowed to enjoy those same benefits by being allowed to even work at those jobs? Men fought those fights for other men, first and foremost. You're talking about a totally different struggle, for a totally different purpose.

And two words: Norma Rae.

And...how does men fighting for unions pertain to what kind of wife T'Pol would be? Gender roles and equality seem relevant, but I'm not sure where the unions fit in?

[honeybee]

Women and children worked in factories as well and women were a huge part of the labor movement. The suffered the same beat-downs as their male counterparts and had to fight for the right to vote along-side their rights for safe working conditions, often being mocked and harassed by not only the people who opposed them but some male workers as well. But here's the deal, that doesn't mean that men some how had less right to safe working conditions or the vote. It's about equality.

Certainly, as Alelou said, anyone living in poverty - male or female - suffered terribly and we should all be grateful that some progress was made for everyone. Poverty sucked. I remember studying the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, during which dozens of young women chose to jump to their deaths rather than be burned by the fire. The exit doors had been locked to prevent the workers from taking cigarette breaks. But here's the deal, after that - the debate wasn't about women's rights to safe working environment - it was about people's rights to it. Fire codes are a good thing.

But getting back to the debate at hand, I think however one's role in a household manifests, it is defined by one's personality, one's culture and one's lifestyle. And thankfully, it seems the future we saw in ENT allows for more fluid roles.

Ultimately, the kind of wife T'Pol would be would be a good one, but given the interspecies issue and that this is in the future, they'd both have the luxury of flexibility.

[Brandyjane]

Ultimately, the kind of wife T'Pol would be would be a good one, but given the interspecies issue and that this is in the future, they'd both have the luxury of flexibility.

I'm feeling a little feisty this morning, so I'm going to start some trouble. Here goes...

Are you sure about that? Just because we like her and Trip loves her, it doesn't mean she'd be a good wife. She treated him pretty terribly throughout seasons 3 and 4. Are we sure she really was capable of getting her act together and treating him well? If she continues to treat him like crap, Trip might walk away, bond or no bond. ACK! I need my coffee! I suddenly have some new insight into a possible reason they broke up in *the_abomination*!

...runs away quickly...

(Just kidding, though. Any possible future after the REAL ending of ENT of which I can conceive involves Trip and T'Pol getting married and having several absolutely adorable kids.)

[honeybee]

Are you sure about that? Just because we like her and Trip loves her, it doesn't mean she'd be a good wife. She treated him pretty terribly throughout seasons 3 and 4. Are we sure she really was capable of getting her act together and treating him well?

You'll certainly find plenty of T'Pols a heinous character, a b*tch that needs to be taught a lesson company in this fandom. But you won't get it from me. T'Pol's a troubled character, and both her and Trip made mistakes. But I think once she committed, she's committed for life.

[Alelou]

I could see Trip eventually giving up if their differences are such that he's in a constant state of feeling dissed and rejected. However, I like to think a decently functioning bond would overcome their inevitable difficulties with communication and culture.

And I agree that neither of them are quitters once committed.

But it's that 'committed' part that might be the rub, judging from what we've seen on screen.

[Brandyjane]

You'll certainly find plenty of T'Pols a heinous character, a b*tch that needs to be taught a lesson company in this fandom. But you won't get it from me. T'Pol's a troubled character, and both her and Trip made mistakes. But I think once she committed, she's committed for life.

I've read some of those stories, Honeybee, and I don't like them any more than I like the ones where Trip is a weak, lazy, dumb hick. I have no real argument with what you wrote.

However, since I did throw it out there, why, in light of seasons 3-4, are we so convinced that T'Pol would be a good wife? For me it's because of the loyalty she demonstrated on so many occasions. (Unfortunately onscreen it was mostly loyalty toward Archer, but we won't go there, because in my universe she was really just being loyal to Trip underneath it all.) Loyalty is a non-negotiable in marriage, and T'Pol has a proven track-record there. (Unless you're one of the "bad" Vulcans, in which case you might question her loyalty.)