Never apologize

[Silverbullet]

"Never apologize, it is a sign of weakness."

Big John Wayne said it in a few of his films and now Gibbs is saying it in NCIS

Can you imagine Archer, Trip or T'Pol saying anything so arrogant?

I have always believed the ability to apologize for a mistake, hurting some one accidently or on purpose, any number of reasons was a sign of great moral strength, not a weakness.

Perhaps I am wrong. I don't believe that Archer, Trip or T'Pol could ever say that. If I remember right they all apologized in the series.

But aside from that what do you think of the statement "Never Apologize it is a sign of weakness"


SB

[Cogito]

I think it takes a strong person to admit their mistakes to themselves and an even stronger one to admit them to somebody hurt by those mistakes.

Being too ashamed to admit your mistakes is imo a sign of a weak personality.

Feeling that you have to present an image of being perfect, of never making mistakes, is also a sign of a weak personality. It implies to me that you don't feel people would respect you if you were honest; that you have to lie and pretend to be somebody they will respect.

I choose not to believe that Trip or T'Pol would suffer from that particular flaw.

[Transwarp]

PG Wodehouse wrote: "It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort of people take a mean advantage of them."

He might have a point, but since I usually can't tell which sort of people I might be dealing with, I make it a point to apologize when I'm wrong. In fact, I think MOST people freely apologize when they are wrong.

The bigger problem is that most people never think they are wrong...

[Cogito]

The bigger problem is that most people never think they are wrong...

I thought I was, once ...

[putaro]

Apologies are funny. They're just words but humans seem to be really wired to not admit fault. Getting my children to apologize is often very difficult.

Actually, I could see original flavor T'Pol (at the beginning of the series) never apologizing along with a lot of the other Vulcans. If you see no reason to say please or thank you, why should you apologize? By the end of the series, T'Pol is definitely so Human-socialized that she would admit mistakes.

Archer and Trip are supposed to be fairly "enlightened" from the beginning, so I would expect them to apologize.

[Cogito]

The bigger problem is that most people never think they are wrong...

I thought I was, once ...

But it later turned out I was mistaken.



I'll get my coat.

[Silverbullet]

some people would cut their toungues out before admiting they had done wrong or made a mistake. Apologizing in their mind would be admiting to both.

However, that statement as said by Big John and gibbs to me is arrogant. They seem to be saying that they do not need to apolgize to people beneath them (which apparently is everybody) They are above that and anyone wo expects an apology from them. Wayne probably believed it. Not sure if Mark Harmon does. He may be just saying his lines.

Have I ever been wrong? Boy, have I ever. Mistakes are part of life. If you are not making mistakes you are not dong naything. In Government work that is a given. don't do anything, make no mistakes and you won't get noticed but will get promoted because you are an unknown, Funnny but it works.

SB

[Transwarp]

some people would cut their toungues out before admiting they had done wrong or made a mistake. Apologizing in their mind would be admiting to both.

And that's my point. It's not that they (the 'some people' you reference) won't apologize. It's that they just can't realize they've done anything wrong to begin with. Why apologize if you're RIGHT?

I know (from personal experience) how easy it is to let the evidence of my own senses confirm what I personally believe. And *I'm* an open-minded and analytical person (or so I tell myself...). Admitting error is a hard thing to do for any of us.

This probably explains all those insincere apologies (for an example, see almost any recent politician or celebrity caught with his/her hand in the cookie jar): "I apologize if my words or actions have offended anyone."

An apology without any admission of wrong-doing! Perfect!

[putaro]

This probably explains all those insincere apologies (for an example, see almost any recent politician or celebrity caught with his/her hand in the cookie jar): "I apologize if my words or actions have offended anyone."

An apology without any admission of wrong-doing! Perfect!

Rita Rudner had a great bit (supposedly quoting her husband): "I'm sorry...(long pause)...that you were stupid."

[Transwarp]

Before I forget, there was another minor point I had:

that statement as said by Big John and gibbs to me is arrogant.

This is twice now you've called Wayne and Gibbs (by name) onto the carpet for arrogance. I advise caution here; they are ACTORS playing ROLES. The characters they portray do not necessarily share the same ethics and values as the actual actors.

[Cogito]

Before I forget, there was another minor point I had:

that statement as said by Big John and gibbs to me is arrogant.

This is twice now you've called Wayne and Gibbs (by name) onto the carpet for arrogance. I advise caution here; they are ACTORS playing ROLES. The characters they portray do not necessarily share the same ethics and values as the actual actors.

Morrison has said he played "John Wayne" in every movie role he ever played, and it does seem to me that his characters were all very similar. Certainly by the time he was established as a leading actor I think he would have had the common sense and clout to avoid saying things that were not true to the character of John Wayne. And without going into every movie in detail, it always seemed to me that he was a firm believer in "walk softly and carry a big stick" and "do what you believe is right regardless of the circumstances". I don't know if he ever did say that an apology was a sign of weakness, but that's not an expression that I can imagine his persona saying.

[Transwarp]

I don't know if he ever did say that an apology was a sign of weakness, but that's not an expression that I can imagine his persona saying.

According to Google, Wayne's character said "Never apologize and never explain--it's a sign of weakness." in the movie She Wore a Yellow Ribbon. Don't know what Gibb's character might have said.

This does not show John Wayne as being arrogant any more than playing T'Pol shows Jolene Blalock being an astrophysicist.

[WarpGirl]

Woah Boys! Looks like you guys need a girl around here... Okay to the oringinal topic: Would Archer, Trip, and T'Pol ever ascribe to the philosophy that Appologizing is a sign of weakness? No! During the series they've each appologized for different reasons. That said, have they always appologized when they needed too? I would say no. But then again, I don't think it was deliberate. Some people don't realize they've messed up, for reasons that have nothing to do with an 'I'm always right' mentality. That's just something that happens with imperfect people.

Now as for John Wayne... Well, I've watched a few bios on him and some interviews with Maureen O'Hara (his "Duchess") appearently, he's appologize to her often! Smart Man!

As for Leroy Jethro Gibbs... Yeah that is one of his "rules" however... I direct your attention to Rule #55: Sometimes you're wrong! As much as Gibbs drives me nuts about his views on appologies, he's not arrogent.

Mark Harmon... Everything I've ever read about him says that he is a courteous, humble, and generous man.

[Silverbullet]

Thank you all for your views. I accomplished what I set out to do. Get some life in this board. Been too damned quiet in here. a little shake up does wonders.

I don't know now do I care what Wayne realy thinks. I remember seeing him on Laugh in. He was funnny and friendly although he had been run over the coals on that program. He was gracious as one could want. I don't like think he actually sucscribed to that "Never apologize....." statement As for Harmon It is what the writers have him saying. doubt if he holds to that either

SB

[Transwarp]

Thank you all for your views. I accomplished what I set out to do. Get some life in this board. Been too damned quiet in here. a little shake up does wonders.

It *was* quiet. Thanks, SB, for beating me to the punch. I was just about to open up a thread titled "Does T'Pol have the hots for Archer?"

THAT would have stirred things up!