Smut question *grown-ups only* :P

[Distracted]

Okay chrisis.... get writing. It was your idea!

[Elessar]

As demonstrated by Kosova, air power is irrelevant if you don't have boots on the ground. Every branch of the military are support to the infantry

That isn't hat General Mitchell said. Actually it's the other way around.

I have a choice quote from Churchill too, probably made after the RAF saved his country from the Germans.

Sorry guys, but none of the other branches have the ability to deploy as fast as the Air Force. In fact, most of them hitch a ride with us when they really need to get somewhere fast.

None can deploy as fast as the Air Force?!

Who do you think is it that have the motto "The first to go, first to die" ?

[CX]

Doesn't matter, the Air Force can eb anywhere in the world in 24 hours or less to put bombs on target. Lets see the Army do that with their puny little tanks.

How fitting that foreskins and Air Force are mentioned in the same thread.

More like dicks and service branches. It's all pecker talk really.

[Rigil Kent]

Doesn't matter, the Air Force can eb anywhere in the world in 24 hours or less to put bombs on target.

As long as there is a 4 star hotel present. I live with an Air Force guy, dude. In the last ten years, I've had about six AF roommates and have a lot of friends in the AF. Even they will admit that their job is very, very pogue-like. The only people I can honestly respect in the AF are the mechanics who keep the planes flying and the para-rescues.

Lets see the Army do that with their puny little tanks.

It's the job of the Air Force to get the Army into theater. Hence ... support.

I second Distracted's call for Chris to write a MU fic...

[Distracted]

I volunteer to beta if you'll write it, chrisis.

[chrisis1033]

........Thanks

It would be my first time. I am a fan writer virgin....

[FireStar]

I think it could be because it has been tradtional in America to circumcize. Rememeber this was once a very religiously based country. So of course attitudes are such that it was done more often. Now being a woman I have no clue if it makes a differnce to the male feelings. Everyone has prefenences it like saying size dont matter . It does but it is neither better or worse just choice. I know my brother debated it when his children were born in the end they did get done mostly because he was. He felt it would be simpler to expain latter. In the ancient times it was healthier to circumize but less necessary in modern times. I do know that the fact that most Americans are done saved a lot of GI's in WWII. A friend of my uncles was a jew who had been in the air force. He was wise enough not to list that on his dog tags. Good thing as he did get shot down. But because most Americans are done he belended right on in. I really think that is why it is still done today a just in case situation.

[CX]

As long as there is a 4 star hotel present.

Right... Tell you what, I know better because I've seen it in the briefings I got while I was in ROTC. I know for a fact that the AF shares bases with the Army and that our SFs even do most of the security work in guarding them.

I live with an Air Force guy, dude. In the last ten years, I've had about six AF roommates and have a lot of friends in the AF. Even they will admit that their job is very, very pogue-like.

Then they've been lucky.

It's the job of the Air Force to get the Army into theater. Hence ... support.

Wrong, it's our job to kill dumb grunts on the ground. On occasion the Army tags along for the ride so they don't have to wait around for 6 months for the Navy to get them there.

[Distracted]

........Thanks

It would be my first time. I am a fan writer virgin....

Oh boy! My favorite kind! You guys are so teachable. Makes for a really... satisfying... beta-ing experience.

[Rigil Kent]

Tell you what, I know better because I've seen it in the briefings I got while I was in ROTC.

Now what do I notice about that comment that immediately leaps out at me? Could it be ... "Reserve" Officer Training Corps? As in ... not active duty? Stating that you "know better" without providing actual proof only proves the opposite.

I know for a fact that the AF shares bases with the Army and that our SFs even do most of the security work in guarding them.

Now that is flat out wrong, man. Yes, the AF may have some personnel at Army bases, but saying that the AF are the ones doing all of the security work is simply absurd. What Army bases have you been to where this is this case? In my career, I was in Aschaffenburg, Germany (no AF personnel); spent a lot of time in Frankfurt (and interacted with the pogueish AF guys and gals there); Fort Benning, GA (perhaps a company-sized element of AF personnel at best and saying that they did any real work is laughable at best); spent a bunch of time in Fort Irwin, CA (see Benning comment). I live outside of Tinker AFB and the SFs don't guard it! They have civilian security personnel at the gates!

I live with an Air Force guy, dude. In the last ten years, I've had about six AF roommates and have a lot of friends in the AF. Even they will admit that their job is very, very pogue-like.

Then they've been lucky.

No, they've been honest. My current AF roommate has served for 16 (almost 17) years and has been all over the place. Before he was a flyer, he was maintenance so saying that only the flyers are pogues is silly. Recently, he was on TDY for a senior NCO academy and had (for whatever reason) to visit Fort Leonardwood in MO; he was aghast at how rough the Army guys have it (even if he was kind of envious at the new digital uniforms - don't ask me why.) He compared it to the first combat rotation he was on in Qatar to support the Afghanistan operation - before they got AC.

But I guess that his professional opinion doesn't count, huh?

Wrong, it's our job to kill dumb grunts on the ground. On occasion the Army tags along for the ride so they don't have to wait around for 6 months for the Navy to get them there.

And let's see ... who is it that the AF is supposed to kill those "dumb grunts" for? Hmmm ... that would our boots on the ground. Why is it so hard for you to admit this? I don't think that anyone is stating that the AF is useless or has no place (well ... maybe Mitchell). It's simply a support arm, just like a medic or mechanic.

And thanks for the "dumb grunt" insult, BTW. Glad to know what you think about the infantry.

On a less antagonistic note, did you know that, based on the official Air Force newspaper thingy that my roommate gets (the Air Force Times), the AF is significantly reducing it's personnel (by like a quarter or a half, can't recall which) over the next six years? Personally, I don't understand the thinking behind this, not when we're involved in operations around the world. And then, I remember what party won the elections last year .

[CX]

Now what do I notice about that comment that immediately leaps out at me? Could it be ... "Reserve" Officer Training Corps? As in ... not active duty? Stating that you "know better" without providing actual proof only proves the opposite.

Who do you think trained us?

Now that is flat out wrong, man. Yes, the AF may have some personnel at Army bases, but saying that the AF are the ones doing all of the security work is simply absurd.

I didn't, I said most.

What Army bases have you been to where this is this case?

They're in the Afgan theater.

I live outside of Tinker AFB and the SFs don't guard it! They have civilian security personnel at the gates!

Of course not, they're all overseas guarding those bases. Though I find it odd that they have civilians doing it instead of Guard. I also find it odd that they manage to keep enough SFs at Grand Forks and Minot to guard their own gates yet they don't in other places.

No, they've been honest.

No, they were fortunate that none of their duties were that difficult. And if you want to bitch about the Air Force taking care of it's people, I suggest you bitch to the Army about it.

And let's see ... who is it that the AF is supposed to kill those "dumb grunts" for?

Why our government of course. But not so much "who" as for "what", which would be the mission.

And thanks for the "dumb grunt" insult, BTW. Glad to know what you think about the infantry.

I give back what I get.

On a less antagonistic note, did you know that, based on the official Air Force newspaper thingy that my roommate gets (the Air Force Times), the AF is significantly reducing it's personnel (by like a quarter or a half, can't recall which) over the next six years? Personally, I don't understand the thinking behind this, not when we're involved in operations around the world. And then, I remember what party won the elections last year .

Why do you think I got kicked out? They've been doing this for a while actually. Basically someone decided our personnel aren't as important as getting new toys like the F-35. Anyway, I suppose they're hoping the ones that are up to get kicked out will join either the Army or the Marines since they have shortages.

Anyway, a few of my favorite quotes to share:

"It is probable that the future war will be conducted by a special class, the air force, as it was by the armored knights of the Middle Ages."
-- General Billy Mitchell

"The Function of the Army and Navy in any future war will be to support the dominant air arm."
-- General Jimmy H. Doolittle

"The Navy can lose us the war, but only the Air Force can win it. Therefore, our supreme effort must be to gain overwhelming mastery in the air."
-- Winston Churchill

"Today air power is the dominant factor in war. It may not win a war by itself alone, but without it no major war can be won."
-- Admiral Arthur Radford

"Modern air power has made the battlefield irrelevant."
--Sir John Slessor

[Rigil Kent]

I'm not going to bother replying to much of this as it has taken the thread way of subject and is full of nothing but anecdotal evidence. For every comment you've made up there, I have personal experience to the exact contrary. One thing I will comment is on this:

And thanks for the "dumb grunt" insult, BTW. Glad to know what you think about the infantry.

I give back what I get.

I have to point out that, at no time, did I insult the intelligence of members of the Air Force. Yes, I made a comment about them being support, which I stand by, and commented on the relative ease of their job when compared to combat arms units (infantry, tankers, etc.), but I did not intimate that their level of intelligence was substandard In your comment, however, you did do exactly that and, given that you are aware that I am an ex-"grunt", I found it to be a little bit like an unnecessary personal swipe and totally uncalled for. I will not demand an apology ('cause frankly, I'm a big boy and don't need one) but I will ask that you exercise a bit more caution in your choice of words in the future.

[CX]

I have to point out that, at no time, did I insult the intelligence of members of the Air Force.

No, but you did insult our capabilities.

Besides, smart grunts take cover, don't they?

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Come now, guys... shouldn't you be out fighting terrorist scum instead of each other?

[chrisis1033]

This Air Force stuff is funny but...

I have been all over the world as part of various operational forces. I have faced the Russian Bear above the Artic Circle in Norway. The true meaning of "Cold War"...lol... I have been under fire from our NATO "Allies" the Greeks and Truks in Cyprus. I was in the Army... not a reserve collage sorority army... but the REAL Army... the Infantry, for most of my working life. There is nothing that anyone can say to me that will convince me that the Air Force is anything but a pack of.... I have experienced it in real life, over the course of many years...

Back on Topic...

The "Ritual cut" could be a thing of great ceremony. I like the comment that perhaps it is a status thing... marks the person as upper class...etc. Reed could have an issue as he is not from that level in society. He aspires for more but his class holds him back. His best way to command is through the death or removal of his superiors.

It reminds me of a toast we had in the Army... To a sickly season or deadly war... meaning that those situations would increase the tempo of promotions..