Trip Wrong?

[Silverbullet]

Trip saw much beter than Archer and T'Pol. He saw injustice.

What has always got me about this episode is that the third Sex was so important and there wre so few I would have thought they would be treated like royalty. without the third Sex no offspring, period. so they were very necessary. why treat them like dirt then.

Charles by his act might have led the others to contemplate the same thing. Why continue when they are treated as they were. A few of hem commiting suicide and the ohtrs threatienng to would change the attitudeof the other two sexes in a hurry.

This was a very poorly writen episode. It didn't make any sense at all.

SB

[Thot]

But none of that made Trip's actions a good idea. What he wanted to do was right. HOW he did it, was wrong.

I agree. But that Trip acted this way (a.k.a. immulating Archer's heads on approach) isn't surprising.

I think the people on this thread have invested far more thought an effort into understanding the implications of this scenario, than the script writers did.

I would like so much to disagree with you, but considering the things we have seen in the episode, I simply can't. Quite sobering, isn't it?

Well, at least I'm thankful that the Archer "Master Hypocrite" times ended with the 3rd season (or at least it wasn't so painfully obvious anymore) and we can for the most part simply ignore the episode, since it wasn't mentioned or picked up at any later point.

Let's hope it remains the same way with possible later Star Trek series/movies.

[WarpGirl]

Well, at least I'm thankful that the Archer "Master Hypocrite" times ended with the 3rd season (or at least it wasn't so painfully obvious anymore)

<cough> Deadalus <cough>

[Silverbullet]

T'Pol didn't shine too much in this episode. Course she wasn't what one could call sympathetic.

SB

[WarpGirl]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I felt both Trip and T'Pol were extremely sympathetic in that particular episode. But then I don't think T'Pol is an insensitive .

[Alelou]

I think he may still be talking about "Cogenitor." SB?

If you're speaking of "Daedalus," I'd have to side with WG.

[Silverbullet]

Harbinger comes to mind.

course she did help him with the loss of his sister.

In Cogintor she was not sympathetic.

Just my opinion

SB

[Cogito]

I think the vulcans in general thought that humans were too parochial, impulsive, judged everyone by human standards and were prone to rushing ahead without thinking about the consequences. And when you think about Archer's disastrous track record for first contact, with practically every encounter ending up with some sort of fire fight, it's hard to say they were entirely wrong. T'Pol would certainly have had this impression reinforced during that first away mission when Trip tried to interfere with that alien mother weaning her child. So, Trip talking about interfering with private matters during an encounter with an alien species that has gone well, for a change, must have had her rolling her eyes. Surely anyone with half a brain cell would realise that people are going to especially touchy about anything affecting their reproduction and this is the very last thing you want to be messing with during a critical first contact. The fact is that even Archer agreed with her, for a change. From her point of view, it must have felt like she was trying to keep a bunch of irresponsible juveniles out of trouble. A pretty thankless job at the best of times, especially given that one of the juveniles out-ranked her.

So no, I'm not surprised that she wasn't sympathetic towards Trip in this episode.

[Silverbullet]

What many of you are missing is that the third Sex is as inteligent as the other two Sexes, has hopes and dreams, aspirations for a better life. all tthe thins that make a Sentient being.

The third Sex is crcital to the reproduction process. Its numbers in the population are low.How did it come about that they are treated like dirt? It makes no sense at all.

Let's presume that the vissians were once primitative like humans. Three Sexes the cogigenitor again is critical to the reporoduction. Again its numbers are very low. A tribe that could get acogintor would do everything to keep it. They had two options lock it up, guard it or treat it well.Binding it with golden chains would be smarter. So the tirbe does and the cogintor is happy, it stays with the tribe. Other tries that do not have a cogintor try to steal that one. They too would treat it wel so it would not want to leave.

This would go down through their historyy: the third sex being treeated well. That would make a lot more sense than what was given in the episode.

SB

[Alelou]

Using your logic, women should be treated extraordinarily well on our planet, since they are quite necessary to reproduction, but that's hardly the case in a good part of the world. Heck, slaves in the South were fairly valuable as breeding stock, too, especially once importation of slaves was made illegal, but it didn't result in them being treated well.

When you add in the fact that this particular component of reproduction apparently has no familial or genetic rights up or down the family line, no way to maintain a consistent family identity or inheritance of property, I could see where it might end up being treated like chattel -- why would the others wish to invest in this person's education? Who would wish to raise it as a child? How would this being accumulate the wealth that can generate or purchase power? It doesn't even have enough numbers to use boycotts or protests or other methods of civil disobedience effectively. As long as the others can keep it well-fed, healthy and not so self-aware that it starts getting choosy about who it hangs out with, that works to their advantage. (Really, we should have seen it plugged into endless reality television or something else mindless/distracting/mildly sedating.)

[Silverbullet]

Alelou, Okay, Where do the Cogenitors stay when they are not being used in the reproduction process? Barracks? If so then they will congregate and talk among themsleves.

In the episode the cogenitor was with the two other sexes for a while. suppose a coginotor or more were in a home iwth a library. One of them or more might have been intelligent enough to teach itself to read. It could then, at the barracks, tech others to read.then they would become self aware. They would have time to read from librariesof different Vissians and go back to the brracks where they would share the knowledge gained. It would not take long for the cogenitors to know how they wre being treated and what they wre missing. they might even gain kolwedge of weapons, dangerous.

The idea of such an intelligent group no taking advantage of learning is rediculous. Look at how fast charles learned. It is also possible that some coginotors could learn to read by themselves. there have been Human children who have done that. Hell I cannot remember a time when I could not read and that goes way back before I started school.

SB

[Alelou]

If people wait years for their chance to have a cogenitor, I doubt they spend any time not assigned to a couple. Anyway, if that sort of political organizing was going on with the cogenitors, it certainly wasn't apparent in the one we met in that episode.

Not that this is really worth arguing about, since it's all supposition of the wildest kind based on an episode that was pretty sketchy to begin with.

[Asso]

Well, actually everything that can be said about that episode is that one doesn't understand what it wants to say.

[Weeble]

"Trying to put a lighter touch on the discussion" I wonder what the "Cogenitor" did during the reproductive process? Maybe they put on cheerleader suits and waved Pom-Poms?

weeble
aka Steelchaser
><((((º>

I'll go back to the river now....

[Distracted]

I always imagined it was very much like the third gender's role in Alien Nation. But then, I have a very prurient imagination.