I was thinking

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Asso
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Re: I was thinking

Postby Asso » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:01 pm

Reanok wrote:
I agree with Hopeful Romantic I think Margaret Clark definitely ahs her own plans when it comes to the relaunch books.I definitely plan on getting Kobayashi maru to find out what happens next Trip & T'Pol's story arc.


I don't deny that, and I am glad of that.
What I want to mean is a different thing.
Maybe I don't be capable of being clear.
Please, forgive me. :)
Well yes. I continue to write. And on Fanfiction.Net, for those who want, it is possible to cast a glance at my latest efforts. We arrived to
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four


And here is the beginning of the whole story.
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But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.

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Re: I was thinking

Postby HopefulRomantic » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:23 am

I am dispensing with spoiler text, since there have been major plot points from TGTMD mentioned in earlier posts. So-- spoiler warning!

Asso wrote:You said: Drama is conflict.
True. But conflict, not angst, or, better, as already I said, not gratuitous angst.

I define "angst" as anxiety, distress, heartache--i.e., inner conflict, emotional conflict, especially when applied to a romantic relationship. The recent death of a child, a relationship derailed before it has a chance to be solidified, emotions in turmoil, T'Pol in turmoil about who she is and wishes to be...I don't see any of these as resolved issues, but points of conflict. So I personally have no problem with angst as fodder for drama. (See Seasons 3 and 4 for T/T angst as a source for gobs of conflict.)

Some T/T fans enjoy angst, provided that there is a payoff for the star-cross'd lovers. When Trip and T'Pol got together in Bound and were united in grief in Terra Prime, the angst lovers got their payoff. Then came the Thing, which was a betrayal, emotionally and structurally, to what had come before, which is why so many rejected it. (I didn't even get into that shuttlepod scene, because to me, it was a big non sequitur. Someone who looked like T'Pol said something about them breaking up, and she and someone who looked like Trip talked about missing each other, but it just didn't make any sense to me, so I didn't buy a word of it. T'Pol's hair was pretty, though.)

I understand "gratuitous," to mean "unearned." You refer to gratuitous angst, and earlier to gratuitous grief. I'm a little unclear... do you believe the angst and grief has not been earned in the book's story? Or that you wish it did not exist? Or something else?

You said: If TGTMD had ended, or begun, or whatever, with Trip and T'Pol blissfully together, a prime source of drama would have gone right out the window...
I disagree: too easy , for me, to grasp people's attention with exhibition of the obvious.
Isn't it possible to imagine a solid and blissful (finally!) couple, which is fighting together and with the others in the contest of a greater DRAMA?
But this, allow me these words, asks for an effort much more powerful in the writing and describing, something very extra...

You ask for T/T to be blissful and without conflict between each other, but for there to be external conflict/drama, correct? Of course, that could have been possible. I theorize that Margaret and the book's authors wished not to settle for external conflict, but wished for conflict between T/T also, to create even more drama.

Trip is alive. Yes. What Trip? A spy? Oh certainly! It's true that things change with the passing of time, but, I think, within certain limits.
The CANON is the chain, I understand that. But, in my opinion, a large-link chain. A so large-link chain that the biggest things could go through.

Many did not agree with the story choices that were made with TGTMD. But artists gotta do what they gotta do. They have the right to follow their muses, just as you have the right to toss their book.

I don't know which of the three M's came up with the Section 31 element. Sure, it was only one of many ways they could have gone. I wouldn't have done it, but I don't do war stories or action/adventure, either. I did think it was a creative way of getting Trip out of the picture after his faked death, and setting him up to be a major player in the war to come. The ending had a clear set-up for Trip's return, and the book presented enough wiggle room for any number of scenarios re T/T--some of them positive, and happy-ending-ish. So I'll wait and see. For the book-tossers, as JadziaKathryn says, there is fanfiction.

Margaret's game plan with the Relaunch isn't just for T/T fans, it's for Enterprise fans, for Trek fans, for sci-fi fans. She's setting up the Romulan War and the founding of the Federation. I was very surprised by how much romance-themed stuff (between T/T and Shran/Jhamel) there was in TGTMD. I mean, wow. The mother lode, for a sci-fi/action/Section 31 book.

...But by the book's end, T'Pol's perspective has changed because of several revelations. She's not thinking in terms of "fractures" any longer;
At last! What a tortuous pathway for an yet questionable ending!

Please, you must forgive my vent!

LOL! I'm amazed you made it to the end of this book! You should have burned it, page by page, instead of throwing it away.

And, last but not least, you said: That right there gives me hope for T/T. But I am expecting them to get dragged through hell first, because drama is conflict.
You must understand: I am a son of Dante. There are a lot of hells. Some correct and some... gratuitous and unfair.

Again, that depends on how you look at the way the story is being told. If the storytellers justify the journey they are putting their characters through, and I am compelled by the characters, then I will root for them to succeed, no matter how hellish the journey. And if they do succeed, the ending will be all the more satisfying for me. That's my take, anyway. Every reader's take will be unique, because every reader brings a unique perspective to the read. That's how the same story can both loved and despised, and everything in between, depending on the reader.

Anyway, a fact is sure. It's great that we are here, debating in this way. I think it's the big force of Trip and T'Pol's Fans.
:D

In this, we agree. :)

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Re: I was thinking

Postby evcake » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:07 am

You know, when I first read your post,Asso, I thought you wanted Lizzie to be alive. Or at least potentially alive, like Spock. 8)
Like maybe Daniels could come back and fix things, a la BnB.
Surely she would be, in the words of my favorite playwright "of some importance in the play of time."
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an appropriate ingredient, don't you think?


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Re: I was thinking

Postby Asso » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:12 am

HopefulRomantic,
It's obvious that we have different ideas, and - most likely - also different sensitiveness. But this is salt and pepper of life. :D

However, to reply to your words - I'm amazed you made it to the end of this book! You should have burned it, page by page, instead of throwing it away - you can be sure: my action was only virtual! I never could throw away a book! It's stronger than me! I always must read every book I have between my hands! (And this often gave me not few disappointments. Well, to tell the true, such a lot of disappointments that I got into the bad habit of having a look at the book's ending before I read the beginning. And, nevertheless, that doesn't protect me! Well, what an exacting person I am! :? )

And, to answer also you, evcake... (But I beg you, HopefulRomantic, to read this you too, if you want)... No, I don't want Lizzie to be alive, or at least potentially alive, like Spock.
However much it may sound strange, I am respectful of the CANON. Only, in my mind, the death of Trip and T'Pol's daughter is NOT the cause of their breaking apart. Quite to reverse, it does only can be the cause of their definitive living together, AS THOSE HANDS, EACH OTHER INTERTWINED IN THE TRUE FINAL SCENE, CLEARLY SHOW AND DISPLAY!
I wrote: The CANON is the chain, I understand that. But, in my opinion, a large-link chain. A so large-link chain that the biggest things could go through.
That last scene is too much jarring with the assumption of “THE ABOMINATION", and, in my thought, obviously also with that of TGTMD, which takes this assumption as its own..
I think it's possible to have the cake and eat it.
As many people already proved.
I think it's even just possible to respect the (please forgive me) so-called CANON of TGTMD, while keeping at the same time the promise of those intertwined hands.
And while making Trip the person who he is.

Someway, in my small way, I am trying to do something like this.
If you read my first Fic, Ulysses (horribly done, I know), you can understand what I want to say.
And all my Fics are connected one with the another, along a path which is headed towards a definite aim (I hope).
But I am NOT a writer capable of doing choral scenes (if I am really a writer). Far-reaching.
I am, I think, a describer of intimate sensations, and of intimate moments (For now...).
Anyway, I want to try to make that.

My God! I am mad! :shock:
Well yes. I continue to write. And on Fanfiction.Net, for those who want, it is possible to cast a glance at my latest efforts. We arrived to
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four


And here is the beginning of the whole story.
Image

But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.

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Re: I was thinking

Postby Linda » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:05 pm

With only skimming this thread, (will read it better later), I can say that I will buy all the new ENT books that come out, no matter how bad they are...if only just to enter an intelligent discussion about them!
Working on a major fan fic project. Two-thirds done. Hope to put it up in the not TOO distant future.

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Re: I was thinking

Postby Distracted » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:08 pm

Asso wrote:My God! I am mad! :shock:

Join the club, dear! 8)
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Asso
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Re: I was thinking

Postby Asso » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:12 pm

:D :) :o :? :shock: :doubt: :faint:
Well yes. I continue to write. And on Fanfiction.Net, for those who want, it is possible to cast a glance at my latest efforts. We arrived to
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four


And here is the beginning of the whole story.
Image

But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.

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Re: I was thinking

Postby evcake » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:12 pm

Dang. I want Lizzie to be alive. Spirited off to the 34th century, maybe... :( :?
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It's flavored with passionfruit
an appropriate ingredient, don't you think?


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Re: I was thinking

Postby Asso » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:16 pm

Well!
This sounds as a NOT bad idea!
Maybe it's logical to work on it! :?
Well yes. I continue to write. And on Fanfiction.Net, for those who want, it is possible to cast a glance at my latest efforts. We arrived to
The Ears of the Elves, chapter Forty-four


And here is the beginning of the whole story.
Image

But, I must say, you could also find something else on Fanfiction.net written by me. If you want.


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