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Yes, WarpGirl, I totally noticed how he insulted his mama in E2:

LORIAN: You shouldn't have spoken to Archer.
Old T'POL: He had a right to know the risks. Why didn't you tell him?
LORIAN: If they use that corridor their mission will fail. Earth will be destroyed.
Old T'POL: You're allowing your human side to get the better of you.
LORIAN: You know nothing about being human.
Old T'POL: I know that for them guilt can be a powerful motivator. Don't let it cloud your judgment.
LORIAN: Maybe you'd be a little more concerned if Vulcan was in danger, and not Earth.

From this I glean that

1) He insults his mother ("You know nothing about being human" "Maybe you'd be more concerned if Vulcan were in danger"). At the same time he actually wants/feels he needs his mother's advice because you see he keeps consulting her.
2) T'Pol is used to this sort of thing from him. You can tell because she reacts calmly.
3) For some reason Lorian runs the show on Enterprise, not T'Pol, even though Lorian is younger. Lorian must have talents that have earned him this position.
4) He identifies as Human (at least as much as he identifies as Vulcan.)
5) He doesn't mind breaking the rules if he thinks he's right.

I kept all those qualities in my Lorian. In fact a big plot twist in Brainstorm happens right after the teenage Lorian insults his father (basically by implying that Trip is wimpy in the way that he defers to Archer).

Clearly, from the episode, we get a sense that adult Lorian saw Archer as a surrogate father - and you play with that in your story very well, JT - hinting at all the complexities. I think it is a great concept that while T'Pol turned to Malcolm - teenage Lorian turned to Archer - once Trip was gone.

JT, may I ask how you came up with idea of using the Triannions (sp?) and their fanaticism as a plot device?

Oh, and one more question, giving all the chatter on the site lately about how TnT would have had a baby - how did you come up with the scenario you did - including Lorian's "twin" Destiny? I know all of this predated all this discussion by years.

Transwarp wrote:

WarpGirl wrote:Lorien struck me as Captain Ahab and Captain Nemo's love child

A slash crossover fic? (A THREE-way cross-over, even.) And of course you realize that Ahab and Nemo are as likely to have an unexpected pregnancy as Trip and T'Pol, so Phlox must have been involved, too, with that liquid-filled cylinder he keeps handy.

Truly a disturbing image...

No it's an expression, an idiom. Even I cannot be that literal. I just meant that if you mix Captian Ahab and Captain Nemo, add pointed ears and a charming smirk you would get pretty close to Lorian.

jT I'm sure your characterization is accurate and brilliant, I agree with all of your conclusions. However, I find Lorian's sense of morals and ethics very dubious. Especially considering his parents. Now yes, Trip died when he was young, so I tend to think from the episode Archer took over in the male parental roll. And well I didn't particularly care for the results. I also just don't like people who are cruel to their mothers. Now no I am not the perfect daughter but when I shoot my mouth off I feel remorse and never try to justify it. Lorian might have felt remose but he justified everything, and frankly he was wrong and people tried to help him. Of course he was redeemed at the end, this is Trek. But I didn't feel he personally earned it.

For those people who would actually like to read this very worthwhile series - I am happily posting the link:

JT's E2's series

There's nothing in the stories that would preclude any reader from taking a look - and as I said in the above thread, years ago JT explored some of the intricacies of Vulcan/Human breeding and did it in a very SciFi way.

There's also some interesting OCs running around too.

So, even if you are new around here - dive in.

I thought we were allowed to just talk about it here, am I wrong? Did I break a rule?

WarpGirl wrote:No it's an expression, an idiom. Even I cannot be that literal. I just meant that if you mix Captian Ahab and Captain Nemo, add pointed ears and a charming smirk you would get pretty close to Lorian.

Actually, I knew that. See, I was being my usual yuck-a-minute, humorous self, but now I suspect that you are *deliberately* not getting my humor in order to punish me for not using smiley faces. Very well, I have been beat into submission and will crawl out of my dark and lonely text-only cavern and join the rest of the web in the bright emoticon sunshine:


There! See? See how happy I am? My joy knows no bounds!
Then again, maybe I'm not doing it quite right...

No rules broken, but the thread is for discussing the story. Hard to do if you haven't read it, and arguing against the premise/episode at every opportunity makes it hard to add constructive discussion about the story itself.

It wasn't deliberate Transwarp.

No rules, broken, WG, as Aquarius said. But since she started this thread as a discussion of her story not the E2 episode itself. Obviously, there's going to be crossover - but it's only polite to keep the discussion focused on the specifics of her writing.

Well I certainly didn't intend to be rude. Poor Malcolm.

And I will say that there's no need to pity Malcolm as JT writes him in the story - it's a bittersweet situation to be sure - but it's great to see the older versions of all the characters behaving like adults.

justTripn wrote:A short discussion about my E2 series started up in the New Fanfic thread and was shut down because of our new rule.

My bad. I apologize. It wasn't very considerated of me keeping on commenting after the rule of promoting only was put in place.
I base my opinion of JT-series merely on Brainstorm, the fic that was still posted when I entered the fandom of TnT.
What I liked about it:

1. Trip and T'Pol are both complicated people, different in sex (male/female), background, characther and specie (Human/Vulcan). It's only realistic that their relationship would be not only loving, but something also complicated, difficult and challenging and not a bed of roses. I thought that Jt painted that very clearly in Brainstorm.
2. The decription of the bond. I always struggle to find the right balance with the bond. I like to think that it makes communication and understanding between Trip and T'Pol, that her Vulcan heritage would work out positive for them, without falling into the trap of a easy fix. I read so much stories that TnT miscommunicated that I like to make them communicate well for a change. In Brainstorm their communication wasn't perfect, but the bond helped and came off natural. The bond became somewhat blurred by their own troubles and distractions, but in the end the bond survived and helped.
3. The surprising last chapter. JT really pulled a great and satifying twist in that last chapter.
4. Lorian. I really liked the concept of a half Vulcan/Human teenager. I have never read about it before and after (with the exception of an excellent fic of JadziaKatryn, but that was about a fully Vulcan teenager). Imagine all those Vulcan/Human emotions and hormones running through your body. No wonder you do stupid and crazy things some time. I must confess this story made me dread the time my own kids are going to be teenagers. I missed the support that especially Trip could have given his son, but it was shown clearly that this teenager makes their own way.
5. Trip lives! I really hated that in E2 and in RU TnT are not given much time together and that Archer becomes the surogate father. Luckily not in this fic.

Wow, guys. This is a dream come true: You giving me an opportunity to go BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH about my story. And here I am stuck at work!

All questions will be answered tonight! Thank you guys so much for the feedback. I'm not sure there is much to say, since you guys seem to have pulled out of the story what I put in there.

Not narcissistic point people to my E2 fic - but managed to save Trip's life in mine. As a quick aside, I had planned to stick to canon and - gasp - have T'Pol and a widowed Archer hook up later in life. But I couldn't figure out why the crew wouldn't just blow the hell out of the spheres and be done with the whole mission - so that's what I did - veering into AU of an AU land. I was delighted when I later read JT's series and she had played with some of the same themes/ideas/questions.

Anyway, I while I was irritated by the Tiva plotline. I think it was necessary from a narrative point of view. If we saw T'Pol moving on with Malcolm - seeing Trip pine away would really hurt - it did take the heat off T'Pol that he developed an interest elsewhere - and JT resolved the entire plot very well - with TnT getting their happily ever after.

Oh my! I am supposed to be packing for the Texas Star Party, but I can't resist. Thank you panyasan!, I am so glad you were able to jump into Brainstorm without reading the rest. I'm glad to know it might work as a standalone. I tried as much as possible to sneak in the plot points from earlier stories. As for your points, they all make me very happy.

Honeybee, Where did I get the idea to use the Triannons? I think I needed them for the plot. But more broadly, I was comfortable writing about Triannons because of my religious background. Embarassing though it may be, I am myself a former missionary. (That's what I was doing in Thailand, though it was 99.9 percent relief and development and only and .01% Bible studies.) So I was comfortable thinking up fake theology and understanding Tiva's motivations. I tried not to come off as anti-religious. (Of course I am anti-fanaticism.) In particular, we see Tiva becoming more liberal in her religious views but not giving up her desire to "save the world" in some way.

Where did I get the idea for Destiny, Lorian's "twin"? In one sense it derived organically from Forwards or Backwards, where Trip and T'Pol and Phlox and Amanda become one of the first two couples on the ship, and they share a similar problem: they want to have interspecies children. The families became close through their similar predicament and working it out simutaenously. Also Lorian and Destiny are among the first 5 or 6 children born. It might have something to do with biracial families tending to make friends with each other. I like that Destiny and Lorian, with the other kids, have their own world separate from the adults. My own twins are best friends (since kindergarden up to the present) with another set of twins to the point that the set of four are like quadruplets and are sometimes mistaken for such. How did that happen? Who knows, but it did! More broadly, Lorian needs to be connected with Destiny to hype the drama when Destiny is kidnapped.

In a small insular community everyone is connected to everyone in a complicated way. And if you can keep track of it all, there is lots more opprotunity for drama.