Kind of wife TPol would be?

[honeybee]

I'm going to have to disagree that Trip is lazy. He's always shown to be an exceptionally hard worker, with an intense dedication to his job. He's affable and friendly, and he might run his department more chaotically than a Vulcan would but that is not lazy. He has a different approach than the Vulcan one, and T'Pol eventually recognizes that different doesn't mean inferior.

I also believe that while Trip enjoys pecan pie and a drink now and then, he's never seen over indulging. He's in great shape (see Broken Bow). I don't think he'd need T'Pol to tell him how to eat healthy, and I'm pretty sure that she would respect him enough not to push a Vulcan diet on him.

As a vegetarian who has dated non vegetarians, I know that it's obnoxious to push your eating habits on people.

edited to add: Okay, Trip overindulges in drink in Shuttlepod One - but that's a special case.

[Alelou]

I like to think of them having a relationship that is "always contentious" but also affectionate. And while I imagine Trip would let her win the war in a lot of areas of life, he'd still want to win certain battles -- that contest is part of what they enjoy about each other.

I've never understood the whole 'banish-the-man-to-the-couch' thing. If things are that bad, I'd think it hardly matters where anyone sleeps, because who's going to be sleeping anyway? To do it as a kind of primitive training technique -- you don't eat your veggies, it's the couch for you -- that would really offend me. He's a man, not a dog.

[aadarshinah]

My parents have been married for 25 years... never once (that I'm aware of) has anyone been banished anywhere. Though I've always felt if you're so angry with someone that you don't want to sleep next to them, you should be the one to sleep on the couch. That way you're partner, instead of feeling angry for the banishment, would feel guilty that you're so angry that you're sleeping somewhere far less comfortable than a bed...

[Kotik]

Suppose Trip has a weakness, for sweets. It gets him in to trouble on occasion. Woulld T'Pol ever get so PO that hse would banish him to the Couch? That usualy gets a man's attention real quick.

If your wife resorts to this sort of stuff, you know that it is time for a divorce. A relationship, in which partners punish each other is definitely not healthy. I cannot see T'Pol apply such low-life methods - ever.

[Rigil Kent]

About coffee drinking: there is a very entertaining scene in one of the stories that Rigel Kent wrote when Archer comments on the fact that Trip drinks tea instead of coffee. "She got you drinking tea now?" Great line. Appartently T'Pol thought too much coffee is bad for Trips health, which is true.

Truthfully, that was just intended as a funny one-liner and not indicative of any controlling aspects. I tend to agree with the majority here who don't see her as a controlling shrew who regulates every facet of his life in order to maximize his life expectancy (because love would fade if she's always telling him what to eat and drink, when to do it, how to dress, etc.) I too see their relationship as being a contentious but very affectionate one (in Vulcan terms for the most part, since she isn't going to be smiling or laughing unless its behind closed doors), but I don't see her as a controlling individual in that regard. She already knows that she's going to outlive Trip and, while that grieves her, I would think that she would want to maximize the quality of her time with Trip as opposed to the quantity.

So ultimately, I reject the notion of her being remotely controlling in regards to that sort of thing. Yeah, she'd like for him to live as long as possible, but if he's utterly miserable for the last 30 years of his life because of diet & the like, then what's the point? Besides, Trip has a large say in this and I actually see him as being more obsessive about maximizing how long he lives by watching his diet & exercise out of the same love toward his spouse (he wants to avoid hurting her by kicking the bucket early) that she displays by not dictating how he lives.

Does that make sense? It makes sense to me, but my brain is a little wobbly tonight.

[Brandyjane]

I think Trip would probably take his health into his own hands. He knows T'Pol is going to outlive him by a lot, and he's probably going to do his best to be around for her and their kids as long as possible. I don't think he'd completely swear off coffee and dessert, though, because life has to have some pleasures! I doubt T'Pol would expect him to, either. In fact, I'm pretty sure she'd join him for some pie now and then. Now, if he started really neglecting his health or doing things that were clearly causing him physical damage then, yeah, I think she would say something to him. If she can tell her captain and chief engineer that they need to get laid to relieve their tension, then I think she would tell her husband if he needs to lay off the sugar or get some more sleep.

Another reason for Trip to take care of himself is that T'Pol is going to continue to be hot for a really long time. Now, I know this isn't true with every couple, but in my experience, when one partner looks good, the other often at least tries to stay fit and attractive. Remember in "Unexpected" when Trip senses that Ah'len (spelling?) finds him attractive, and her response is something along the lines of, "You like it when women find you attractive"? Trip likes to look good.

While I think she'd probably expect him to dress himself, there is that line from one of the "going-to-Risa" episodes where she criticizes his shirt. They're not even close to being a couple, but she makes a comment.

[EntAllat]

Count me in the crowd that wouldn't see T'Pol as a manipulative mother-rather-than-partner.

Trip and T'Pol are both extremely intelligent individuals. She's a scientist and former diplomatic attache with covert operations experience, he's an orbital engineer with military training and capable of being a good instructor. They both come from cultures that value straight-forwardness and honesty. I just can't see T'Pol fussing over Trip's eating habits, clothes and choices etc. like a Stepford wife or Trip finding that in any way attractive and appealing.

Affectionate? Absolutely! But affection doesn't necessarily have to come in the form mother-hen type behavior. T'Pol as a wife and partner, I think, would be far more graceful and sophisticated than that. Moreover, it would be uniquely Vulcan in some way. Perhaps being psychically sensitive to Trip's emotional state at any given time, she might be quicker than anyone else to be there when he needs someone to talk to.

I always thought that one of the reasons why Trip found that he'd "never enjoyed arguing with someone so much before" is because arguing with T'Pol really challenged him to think - and he found that fun and exciting, not to mention that he seems to like strong women. T'Pol seemed to find it agreeable as well, possibly for similar reasons. Because of that, I like the idea that they would have a lifelong tug-of-war over Trip's tropical print shirts. Not because T'Pol really doesn't like them or wants to change him but simply because it's a way to affectionately tease each other and continue to 'argue' about something. For example, they might debate over the 'aesthetic value' of the shirts versus 'cultural relevance' and end up with T'Pol saying Trip would look handsome in a plain white T-shirt and Trip countering with a comment that T'Pol would look great in a tropical print bikini.

But T'Pol choosing his clothes, watching what Trip ate, etc? Nah, not even remotely. Besides, Trip matured and changed more than any of the others over the course of Enterprise's run. He's perfectly capable of rising to the occasion and taking care of himself like an adult with an eye for trying to mesh two cultures and two vastly different life-spans together in a serious relationship.

[Transwarp]

Trip has a large say in this and I actually see him as being more obsessive about maximizing how long he lives by watching his diet & exercise out of the same love toward his spouse (he wants to avoid hurting her by kicking the bucket early) that she displays by not dictating how he lives.

Count me with Rigil on this. I can see Trip making major changes to his lifestyle and diet, but not because T'Pol is forcing it on him; she has too much respect for him to demand such things. He's willing to make these changes because it pleases T'Pol, and for him that's reason enough.

[justTripn]

I'm going to agree with Rigil. T'Pol would try to maximize the quality of Trip's life, and Trip takes care of himself pretty well (except for sleep).

And I agree with Alelou that they would continue to bicker over things, partly just for sport, and partly because they have different opinions.

In any case, any attempt to micromanage one's partner (food or clothes) is going to backfire. For me, in a relationship, it would be more than a turn-off. It would be a deal breaker. Two different people need (and need to give each other) lots of space to be two different people.

I do imagine that they might slowly over time absorb each other's ways such that Trip picks up some Vulcan habits and T'Pol picks up some human habits, but that it would happen so naturally that this is more apparent to others than to themselves.

[Alelou]

I hope SB isn't feeling slammed on this. I think the generations truly have split in this area, for one major reason: up until the sixties it was just assumed that the wife would be IN CHARGE of food -- purchasing, preparing, etc. There was a clear division of labor. After women started working too, that changed. So it boggles our mind that one spouse might attempt to dictate this to the other, but I do think it was a quite common phenomenon in the past.

Lots of things have changed that we don't even realize. I remember that in a meeting with my colleagues at the publishing company where we were discussing how to sell a book called "Secrets of Better Sex" -- and I think at the time we were choosing our mailing lists in particular -- the 70+ marketing manager for that area said, "Aren't we ignoring the obvious issue? A woman has to wait for a man to initiate anything." And the rest of us, all younger, kind of looked at each other like what the hell was she talking about? (I think I even said, "That hasn't been my experience...") But for her, that was so normal and expected that she actually said it in a meeting.

[honeybee]

You're right, Alelou. Things have evolved rather significantly over the last four or five decades, that's for sure. It makes one wonder just how things will change in the future.

Yesterday, I watched an old movie starting Steve McQueen and Natalie Wood, which in 1963 must have been considered very racy and R-Rated but today probably wouldn't be more than a PG, maybe PG-13, since it's explicitly clear that they have sex before they're married. It's not shown, of course, but it's discussed because the plot revolves around her unexpected pregnancy. McQueen eventually offers to marry her, and she makes the bold, modern choice of saying no because he doesn't love her. Of course, he does love her and he spends the rest of the movie convincing her of that - so it has an old fashioned ending. But he realizes he loves her, when she makes it clear that she isn't interested in trapping him or hen-pecking him. But was interesting in that the movie struck me as half-way between contemporary and old-fashioned in its values. I was particularly amazed by Natalie Woods's pregnant character wearing stilettos to work all day - but to be fair, they are shown to hurt her feet.

[Aquarius]

Yes, things have changed. And I think that, in order to write characters that ring true to the ones we saw in the show, we have to remember that Trip and T'Pol weren't created a long time ago with the intention of entertaining an older generation. They were created recently with modern ideas and values in mind. To ignore the cultural and historical context in which a show and its characters were created leaves one open to misinterpretations--and by cultural and historical context, I don't mean when the show is set, I mean the circumstances and events that were affecting the audience it was created for. Enterprise was not written or broadcast at the same time as Leave it to Beaver; they have completely different social and historical contexts.

That said, T'Pol isn't going to hen peck Trip over something like eating sweets, and he certainly isn't going to get couched over something as insignificant as that. She may make one pointed comment and let it drop, but I believe it would be more like a Vulcanized form of teasing rather than any real disapproval. Trip's not the kind of guy to eat that stuff all the time, and I don't think T'Pol is really going to begrudge him a dessert or sweet snack once in a while. Keep in mind, too, that if Trip ate that stuff all the time, his physique would be MUCH different than what it is, so honestly, I don't think it's a real problem in his life.

As for his choice of wardrobe...again, Trip is a big boy and I can't see T'Pol not allowing him to make his own choices. Sure, T'Pol may give him the eyebrow over some of those loud Hawaiian print shirts, but it would hardly be grounds for alienation of affection. And yes, I believe T'Pol would be very affectionate toward Trip--not publicly, but through the bond, and behind closed doors. Trip would never have reason to doubt just how much she loves him.

Now, this isn't to say that they wouldn't do things in an effort to please each other. T'Pol may be inclined to wear Trip's favorite color...or Trip may learn how to make spaghetti with tofu instead of meatballs...but these are positive influences and compromises, not negative "do it my way or you're spending the night on the couch" emotional blackmail. I have to be honest and say I don't care much for fics that depict one as being controlling over the other. That's not who they are as characters, and that's not what their relationship is about, IMHO.

[Kotik]

As for his choice of wardrobe...again, Trip is a big boy and I can't see T'Pol not allowing him to make his own choices. Sure, T'Pol may give him the eyebrow over some of those loud Hawaiian print shirts, but it would hardly be grounds for alienation of affection. And yes, I believe T'Pol would be very affectionate toward Trip--not publicly, but through the bond, and behind closed doors. Trip would never have reason to doubt just how much she loves him.

As Trip stated at the start of "Fallen Hero", he wore those shirts "to get noticed". Being married to T'Pol would most likely obliterate any reason to wear them. I would guess he'd make more sensible choices, probably steering more towards clothing that T'Pol finds agreeable.

Now, this isn't to say that they wouldn't do things in an effort to please each other. T'Pol may be inclined to wear Trip's favorite color...or Trip may learn how to make spaghetti with tofu instead of meatballs...but these are positive influences and compromises, not negative "do it my way or you're spending the night on the couch" emotional blackmail. I have to be honest and say I don't care much for fics that depict one as being controlling over the other. That's not who they are as characters, and that's not what their relationship is about, IMHO.

I think they would both try to please the other and with the bond they also know what pleases the other most (in and outside the bed). The "couching" is - as you wrote - emotional blackmail and at least IMHO, completely unacceptable. Neither T'Pol nor Trip would resort to such methods. I would never accept a partner, who does that.

[WarpGirl]

I am toying with a story about T'Pol, Trip and T'Pol's effort to keep him eating healthy. That is, not allowing himm too may sweets, etc.

I got to thinking. would she choose his Clothes? would Trip go along with that? would she watch what he ate, made sure he exercised. Took care of himself?

Would a vulcan wife do that?

Would Trip go along with "If mny Wife is happy, I am Happy?

SB

T'Pol is an independent, professional woman of a different species. I most certainly do not see her conforming to any ridiculous, outmoded and sexist Mad-Men era stereotype of a wifey, nor do I believe Trip would want her to do so.

OK... First of all, I don't believe SB wanted to portray T'Pol as some sexist stereotype of a Stepford wife. The stuff he is talking about is taking care of another person, not control. Granted thanks to women's liberation and the sterotypical ways those things are portrayed in society now BOTH sexes see it as a form of control. Which I find sad. Why bother to marry at all if both people are so independent they neither have the inclination to take care of another person, or BE taken care of?????

I'm a feminist! I gave my ex-guy a hard time about his eating processed junk because he had, battled cancer in his colon and yet ate hot pockets EVERY DAY, drank gallons of soda, and other forms of crap. I didn't want to control him I wanted him to be HEALTHY. I nearly lost him, I was terrified. He did not listen to me, NOT ONCE. But never did I say "I'll break up with you," or "I'll make you miserable if you don't change." Does that make me some sort of 50's oppressed housewife type? I think not!

Yes T'Pol is a modern professional woman. Yes it's 2154. No Trip doesn't need to give up meat, pecan pie, coffee, alcohol, or anything else, so long as HEALTHY. But could I see T'Pol making sure he did those things if he was sick? YES. And she wouldn't have to use emotional blackmail to do it. All she would have to say is...

"Trip, I can't bare to see you harm yourself like this. I can't lose you any sooner than I have too. Its your choice." Trip isn't likely to continue doing something that's bad for him after that.

And we have to remember she's already been taking care of him since before they had sex, she'd get plenty ticked off if he blew an NP session, or worked himself ragged by not sleeping for days. So I could see her as his wife making sure if there was no emergency making sure he slept instead of working through the night on minor problems. Does that mean she'd force the issue constantly, or when the ship was falling apart? NO!

And what about Trip? Would it be wrong or "controlling" if he made sure she had time for meditation, not skipping meals, keeping her warm? To me that's love!

If they made a home on Vulcan I could see her "earthing" the place up so he'd have familier things and feel more at home. If they made a home on earth I could see him surprising her with some Vulcan elements.

How is taking care of your spouse sexist now?

[Rigil Kent]

Uh ... isn't that pretty much what most of us have said, just rephrased? *scratches head*