Vulcan Arc

[WarpGirl]

You're right dear, but it was still pretty good. How do you ignore Archer? I usually look at someone or something else and just pay attention to the plot not him. If it's a close up I look at the point behind his head. No Trip didn't get an atta boy from Archer but he got one from Soval and Malcolm and they're more important anyway. If you watch it from the point of view from a Vulcan the three episodes are quite good. But did you ever think Koss might have been really ticked off that his wife was roaming around the desert with her former lover? I don't think he would be I thought all in all he was a decent man. But I need some justification for Super! Archer being there. And you know it is possible to ignore SB on screen he has the charaisma of a rock. I'm sure he's a perfectly decent person but as an actor <shudder>

[Alelou]

I thought that arc was really Trip's shining moment in command, and that allows a lot of putting up with Super!Archer. Besides, it's fun watching T'Pol trying to stifle her annoyance with him and the whole situation. It's good they got separated or she might have taken a lirpa to him herself.

[Linda]

During the Vulcan Arc I was hoping that Surak would impart some humility and common sense to Archer. Maybe the task was even beyond Surak?

[Silverbullet]

Koss did NOT know that Trip was t-Pol's former lover. that always upset me about Home. why didn't Trip just sneak up to Koss and say, me and t-Pol did the dirty and now we are bonded and there is only one customer to a bond and I am it. You cannot get Bonded or Laid with T-Pol.

SB may have been Great in QL but he sucked in enterprise he was too wooden and stiff and he delivered his lines as if he never took acting lessons.

The writers made sure that it ws all Archer. I understand that T-Pol could not lift a piller off her mother but Super Archer could and did. T-Pol grew up on Vulcan and was used to the Gravity and had the strength for the Gravity. Archer who was a middleaged man not in particularly great shape and not used to the Gravity could lift a piller that to him would have weighed at least wice as much as it would have to T-Pol.

I have never been able to understand the Hero Worshiping of T-Pol toward Archer or her supossed Loyalty towards him I never saw any reason for it.

Why didn't she just keep her mouth shut and let the Shelat kill and eat Archer.

[Asso]

[pdsldl]

Koss did NOT know that Trip was t-Pol's former lover. that always upset me about Home. why didn't Trip just sneak up to Koss and say, me and t-Pol did the dirty and now we are bonded and there is only one customer to a bond and I am it. You cannot get Bonded or Laid with T-Pol.

SB may have been Great in QL but he sucked in enterprise he was too wooden and stiff and he delivered his lines as if he never took acting lessons.

The writers made sure that it ws all Archer. I understand that T-Pol could not lift a piller off her mother but Super Archer could and did. T-Pol grew up on Vulcan and was used to the Gravity and had the strength for the Gravity. Archer who was a middleaged man not in particularly great shape and not used to the Gravity could lift a piller that to him would have weighed at least wice as much as it would have to T-Pol.

I have never been able to understand the Hero Worshiping of T-Pol toward Archer or her supposed Loyalty towards him I never saw any reason for it.

Why didn't she just keep her mouth shut and let the Shelat kill and eat Archer.

First Trip didn't know they were bonded neither did T'Pol so he couldn't tell Koss. He could have told him about their relationship or even told T'Pol of his feelings for her but he was scared and/or didn't want to make things harder for her. Second what guy would demean the woman he loves by announcing he had sex with her to anyone but especially while in her mother's home. I'd never speak to him again if a guy did that to me.

I agree with the Super Archer rants. If they could have just decided who the heck Archer was supposed to be and stuck with it I'd have been happy. I really like Scott Bacula as an actor, except in this role. They didn't write him as a good leader and were so inconsistent with his character and his relationships with the crew it was mind boggling. He and Trip were the best of friends supposedly but they never discussed anything personal really. Archer had no clue about Trips feelings for T'Pol, never offered him any help with his grief over Lizzie, and only showed concern for him when things were at their very worst (Sim, the Observer Effect, and Dawn being prime examples of when he was near death).

[Linda]

Koss did not know the history of Trip and T'Pol's relationship on Enterprise but I think the actor played Koss with having a subtle bit of suspicion in "Home". Koss made a veiled remark to T'Pol in the garden about a marriage challenge. It seemed to me Koss was suggesting that a human would not have a chance against a Vulcan. And gosh, when a young male human house guest answers the door of the house of Koss's future mother-in-law, would Koss be likely to think the guy was there as T'Les's guest?

[Asso]

[Alelou]

Koss did not know the history of Trip and T'Pol's relationship on Enterprise but I think the actor played Koss with having a subtle bit of suspicion in "Home". Koss made a veiled remark to T'Pol in the garden about a marriage challenge. It seemed to me Koss was suggesting that a human would not have a chance against a Vulcan. And gosh, when a young male human house guest answers the door of the house of Koss's future mother-in-law, would Koss be likely to think the guy was there as T'Les's guest?

Yeah, exactly.

This is why I like the theory that this wedding is taking place for political reasons T'Pol doesn't fully understand. Because otherwise Koss is putting up with way too much.

[WarpGirl]

Well "Home" isn't apart of the Vulcan Arc but Koss isn't stupid. He knows Trip is someone intimate with T'Pol and I'm not just referring to a sexual relationship. Riddle me this... How many Vulcan women bring work colleagues home, when they go on leave? NONE! No Vulcan women do that, ESPECIALLY HUMAN colleagues. By Trip just being there Koss knows T'Pol is intimate with him. Add to that she goes to Mt. Seleya immediately after the ceremony and stays in isolation for two weeks, then runs back to said human colleague on a ship carrying her far far away. Koss can connect the DOTS. So by the time of the Vulcan Arc I am certain it would not have looked good for T'Pol to be with Trip alone in the desert as a married woman.

Now as to why Trip didn't just take Koss aside and tell him that he and T'Pol had been sexually intimate... What is he crazy? This is a culture that arranges betrothals at 7 years old. For all he knew that information could have gotten him and T'Pol killed. Hey they do it in places where an innocent girl is raped and this is the 21st cenury on Earth. Now I don't even like the fact they had sex to begin with, but Trip isn't a fool. He would know not to do something so blatantly selfish and irresponsible.

[Silverbullet]

It was T-Pol who raised the death match thing and Koss says I will do what I have to.

why in Hell does everyoone think that Trip would have lost? Koss was no fighter and Trip probably could have conned him into making astupid attack early in the fight, killed Koss before the Gravity and rareified Air got to him.

A trained fighter can trick untrained fighters into foolish attacks and finish them off.

Trip had more training that Koss who was an Architect and probably hadn't held a weaponn since he was a young man.

T-Pol could have fought Koss and killed him easilly.

What is this junk that Koss ws forcing T-Pol into a marriage for political reason and to protect her?

She was scheduled to leave Vulcan in a few days anyway and would have been off planet safe and out of the way.

Only reason she was back was because of the Embassy bombing. which occured some time after Home.

Bringing Trip home to meet Mama as T-Pol noted in the Unexpected was the first step in a marriage. Sooooo....

that is what I thought when the home episode first started. t-Pol was taking Trip home to meet mama and if she gave him the once over and didn't otbject to him (too much) T-Pol would rveal her feelings for Trip. I was dumbfounded when that Crappy episode unfolded.

Now with this thing that seemed to be unveiled in the Forge arc I am even more convinced that Mama was deepluy involved into coercing t-Pol into a marriage she didn't want and wasn't needed.

But then, What do I know.

[WarpGirl]

OK A. I never said Trip would lose a Kal'i'fee although they had this annoying habit of making Trip a great fighter in episodes like "Zero Hour" and a really bad one in "Terra Prime" but then Super! Archer had to save the day. I agree that Trip could have beat Koss. B. The whole thing about T'Les joining the Syrranites AFTER the wedding was bull. But then we're talking about the same people who think that episodes like *the_abomination* were wonderful! (at the time) C. Yeah you're right T'Pol brought Trip home to say "Mommy this is the man I want to choose as my mate." But again who is writing the show? People who think that JB and SB had super awsome chemistry.

As the song says... God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy." Although I don't like beer you get my point.

[Asso]

It was T-Pol who raised the death match thing and Koss says I will do what I have to.

why in Hell does everyoone think that Trip would have lost? Koss was no fighter and Trip probably could have conned him into making astupid attack early in the fight, killed Koss before the Gravity and rareified Air got to him.

A trained fighter can trick untrained fighters into foolish attacks and finish them off.

Trip had more training that Koss who was an Architect and probably hadn't held a weaponn since he was a young man.

T-Pol could have fought Koss and killed him easilly.

What is this junk that Koss ws forcing T-Pol into a marriage for political reason and to protect her?

She was scheduled to leave Vulcan in a few days anyway and would have been off planet safe and out of the way.

Only reason she was back was because of the Embassy bombing. which occured some time after Home.

Bringing Trip home to meet Mama as T-Pol noted in the Unexpected was the first step in a marriage. Sooooo....

that is what I thought when the home episode first started. t-Pol was taking Trip home to meet mama and if she gave him the once over and didn't otbject to him (too much) T-Pol would rveal her feelings for Trip. I was dumbfounded when that Crappy episode unfolded.

Now with this thing that seemed to be unveiled in the Forge arc I am even more convinced that Mama was deepluy involved into coercing t-Pol into a marriage she didn't want and wasn't needed.

But then, What do I know.

[Linda]

Silverbullet, your assumption that Koss had no fighting training is a bit far fetched. He may have, he may not have, still, it is canon that Vulcans are three times stronger than Humans. While Trip may have had an advantage due to Starfleet training and experience, he probably has no experience with the lurpa and other weapons used in the marriage challenge. And it is likely that Vulcan boys are trained in these weapons.

I will rewatch Home to see who first came up with the marriage challenge reference in the conversation between T'Pol and Koss. Even so, it does not matter to my point in that Koss's words, body language, and voice tone expressed the thought that he was being a bit arrogent about the possibility of a human challenging him.

[WarpGirl]

That is a great point I mean what self-respecting parents, would betroth their sons to these woman knowing that they have the right to call Kal'i'fee at the wedding and not train these men to fight with the weapons they'd need. They don't wantt heir sons to die, and parents of the champions want them to win for the honor of their families. I can see the lessons starting right after the Telan t'Kanlar. Trip could win but it would never be easy. But then that's the point, to prove yourself worthy of having the bride.