A Hard Bargain: A COMPLETED TnT Story

[TPoptarts]

But according to everything I've read the pon farr only started like after the vulcans tamed their savage violent selves with Surak's logic and was a result of this. After they forced themselves to suppress all their passions. Which was like 2000 years earlier.

[Rigil Kent]

In this story, Trip has been dead for nearly two years. T'Pol doesn't want to have sex with an virtually anonymous Andorian, but then the only other viable option is a painful, humiliating death. Ideally she would prefer not to have sex with anyone, to focus on her career in Star Fleet, and her friendships there, while continuing to heal as best she can from her many losses.

Her body however, is going into pon farr. It doesn't give a rodent's butt what she wants and needs emotionally. In this story, T'Pol is only trying to save her own life with, as much dignity as possible. Shran is the only non-Vulcan or non-Human that she knows well enough, and whom she knows is generally honorable, that she can go to with this. She figures an anonymous Andorian, who Shran trusts (won't take advantage of her situation and kill her in her weakened state) is completely genetically incompatible (again, my analysis of the situation, not cannon), yet strong enough not to endure serious damage from the couplings, and who is descrete and understands what he is getting into, is her best bet. She's unlikely to ever see the guy again, and after the pon farr is resolved, she can take a few showers, meditate the incident into the farthest, least visited portion of her memory, and return to her life without complication. The story is titled 'A Hard Bargain' for a reason. There is no good outcome, only different levels of unpleasantness and misery.

That's all well and good, but you asked for feedback and I gave it. Honestly. It's a failing of mine. If I don't really like something, I'll say so. No offense is intended. I don't like the idea of T'Pol and pon farr. I think its more than a little silly and so ridiculously cliched (the "Hot!Babe in Heat" staple of bad sci-fi) that it's hard for me to take Polly!Farr fics seriously, no matter how well they are written or thought out. I further have difficultly buying that she would seek an Andorian to aid her in this regard since, if one accepts that tripe of a finale as accurate like this fic does, she clearly still distrusts them in general and Shran in particular. As Tucker "died" saving Captain!LeadsWithHisChin from aliens seeking Shran, I do not see how T'Pol cannot see Shran as at least peripherally to blame for Tucker's death, regardless of the fact that Trip was the one who was hit by the brain draining ray and stupidly blew himself up.

ETA: Is it a surprise that, on a TnT site, some people aren't keen on a fic that is about T'Pol arranging to have sex with someone for 2 weeks after Tucker, who was thoroughly assassinated by the idiots-in-charge of the show, dies? /End ETA

As it appears that my honest reaction has offended you in some fashion, I offer my apologies. It was not intended to do so. If you note the usage of the smiley in that comment of mine, you'll see that I was trying to be funny. Since that failed, I apologize and will refrain from additional comment to avoid further hard feelings.

[TPoptarts]

Poor Rigil

[aeverett]

But according to everything I've read the pon farr only started like after the vulcans tamed their savage violent selves with Surak's logic and was a result of this. After they forced themselves to suppress all their passions. Which was like 2000 years earlier.

But reading is not cannon. If you watch 'Amok Time' the original Pon Farr episode in TOS, and in my view, the most comprehensive of any pon farr episode, the Vulcan marriage ceremony is supposedly 'from the before time, without change'. It is intricately tied to the pon farr, which assumes that it predates most other things Vulcan, including Surak's logic. Remember, Pre-Awakening Vulcans may have been nearly insane with emotion, but they were senient. You can't build a nuke without the ability to communicate or comprehend mathematics, etc. Pon Farr would likely have already been redundant by this time, as being passionate creatures, Vulcans were likely (not cannon, but assumption) breeding at a sustainable rate, if not expanding their population. Still, at some point in their evolution, Pon farr had been necesary. When or why, I haven't a clue, but it is still part of them despite the lack of need for it, in the same way we humans are still born with an appendix, yet it has no function and can kill us if it becomes inflamed and bursts.

[aeverett]

In this story, Trip has been dead for nearly two years. T'Pol doesn't want to have sex with an virtually anonymous Andorian, but then the only other viable option is a painful, humiliating death. Ideally she would prefer not to have sex with anyone, to focus on her career in Star Fleet, and her friendships there, while continuing to heal as best she can from her many losses.

Her body however, is going into pon farr. It doesn't give a rodent's butt what she wants and needs emotionally. In this story, T'Pol is only trying to save her own life with, as much dignity as possible. Shran is the only non-Vulcan or non-Human that she knows well enough, and whom she knows is generally honorable, that she can go to with this. She figures an anonymous Andorian, who Shran trusts (won't take advantage of her situation and kill her in her weakened state) is completely genetically incompatible (again, my analysis of the situation, not cannon), yet strong enough not to endure serious damage from the couplings, and who is descrete and understands what he is getting into, is her best bet. She's unlikely to ever see the guy again, and after the pon farr is resolved, she can take a few showers, meditate the incident into the farthest, least visited portion of her memory, and return to her life without complication. The story is titled 'A Hard Bargain' for a reason. There is no good outcome, only different levels of unpleasantness and misery.

That's all well and good, but you asked for feedback and I gave it. Honestly. It's a failing of mine. If I don't really like something, I'll say so. No offense is intended. I don't like the idea of T'Pol and pon farr. I think its more than a little silly and so ridiculously cliched (the "Hot!Babe in Heat" staple of bad sci-fi) that it's hard for me to take Polly!Farr fics seriously, no matter how well they are written or thought out. I further have difficultly buying that she would seek an Andorian to aid her in this regard since, if one accepts that tripe of a finale as accurate like this fic does, she clearly still distrusts them in general and Shran in particular. As Tucker "died" saving Captain!LeadsWithHisChin from aliens seeking Shran, I do not see how T'Pol cannot see Shran as at least peripherally to blame for Tucker's death, regardless of the fact that Trip was the one who was hit by the brain draining ray and stupidly blew himself up.

ETA: Is it a surprise that, on a TnT site, some people aren't keen on a fic that is about T'Pol arranging to have sex with someone for 2 weeks after Tucker, who was thoroughly assassinated by the idiots-in-charge of the show, dies? /End ETA

As it appears that my honest reaction has offended you in some fashion, I offer my apologies. It was not intended to do so. If you note the usage of the smiley in that comment of mine, you'll see that I was trying to be funny. Since that failed, I apologize and will refrain from additional comment to avoid further hard feelings.

You didn't offend me at all. I was just trying to explain how the story developed in my head, why I see it as logical. I LOVE debating, particularly over feedback. Like I said, feedback forces me to think more indetail about my perceptions over a piece and improve myself in later works within the same series.

[Rigil Kent]

You didn't offend me at all.

Well, that's a first. First and foremost, I seem to have a talent in doing that...

[Shakabutt]

Is it a surprise that, on a TnT site, some people aren't keen on a fic that is about T'Pol arranging to have sex with someone for 2 weeks after Tucker, who was thoroughly assassinated by the idiots-in-charge of the show, dies?

Whaaaaat ???

What do you mean.....dies ????

NOT.DEAD ,no ?

And yeah ,i can't bring myself to get emerged in a story where T'Pol has sex with anyone alse except Trip ,not that i don't like the story or its quallity ,but i can't imagine her or Trip with anyone else ,and i even tried ,read some Archer / T'Pol fics ,and my mind keept drifting to playing Halo and ways to develop some skills at it,my girlfriend and household chores ,after a couple of chapters i gave up and got some Halo action online

[CX]

Remember, Pre-Awakening Vulcans may have been nearly insane with emotion, but they were senient.

I'm sure the Vulcans might say something like that, but really I think it's just their perception of emotionalism because of the war that obviously devistated their planet. In order for the Romulans to leave afterwards like they did, they would've needed to have space flight capabilities that exceed our own current capabilities, which means they were already a good deal moer advanced than us at the time of their war.

[TPoptarts]

But reading is not cannon. If you watch 'Amok Time' the original Pon Farr episode in TOS, and in my view, the most comprehensive of any pon farr episode, the Vulcan marriage ceremony is supposedly 'from the before time, without change'. It is intricately tied to the pon farr, which assumes that it predates most other things Vulcan, including Surak's logic. Remember, Pre-Awakening Vulcans may have been nearly insane with emotion, but they were senient. You can't build a nuke without the ability to communicate or comprehend mathematics, etc. Pon Farr would likely have already been redundant by this time, as being passionate creatures, Vulcans were likely (not cannon, but assumption) breeding at a sustainable rate, if not expanding their population. Still, at some point in their evolution, Pon farr had been necesary. When or why, I haven't a clue, but it is still part of them despite the lack of need for it, in the same way we humans are still born with an appendix, yet it has no function and can kill us if it becomes inflamed and bursts.

I meant "reading" as "research about canon stuff".

What they are about to see comes down from the time of the beginning, without change. This is the Vulcan heart. This is the Vulcan soul. This is our way. Kah-if-farr.

I've never seen the episode (even though I spoofed it in my SouthTrek for some reason ) but like still if I stick to both the reading I've done and the Amok Time transcript, the whole "from the time of the beginning without change" thing could still be interpreted as refering to the savagery involved like the fight to the death over passion. Which existed in their untamed past before Surak's time. Though I'd assume not for the purpose of settling any chemical imbalance they may or may not have had because they were like killing each other all the time, they were savages so I can't see how killing someone over a mate would be any different for them than killing someone over like I don't know, say stealing their kid's pet sehlat or something. The thing with the kali-fi and the pon farr is that the fight settles the imbalance because of the immense emotional reaction of a now tamed logical Vulcan, which like washes over the chemical/hormonal imbalance bringing it back down to manageable levels rather than lethal levels so that they can go back to their logical selves. Which makes it even harder for me to see how pon farr could have been involved in this before Surak's time since I assume a savage Vulcan wouldn't feel like any intense emotional reaction like extreme guilt, grief or whatever after fighting someone to the death because it's like way too common. Which would make the fight to the death like totally pointless. Yet the traditional ceremony itself is named after this fight to the death - marriage or challenge. And when the ceremony starts the priest/ess announces the time for a challenge which could like either be acted upon or not and then continue with the ceremony. So I see the Vulcan bonding ceremony as being about the challenge and the savagery (from the time of the beginning) rather than the pon farr itself.

[CoffeeCat]

Is it a surprise that, on a TnT site, some people aren't keen on a fic that is about T'Pol arranging to have sex with someone for 2 weeks after Tucker, who was thoroughly assassinated by the idiots-in-charge of the show, dies?

Whaaaaat ???

What do you mean.....dies ????

NOT.DEAD ,no ?

And yeah ,i can't bring myself to get emerged in a story where T'Pol has sex with anyone alse except Trip ,not that i don't like the story or its quallity ,but i can't imagine her or Trip with anyone else ,and i even tried ,read some Archer / T'Pol fics ,and my mind keept drifting to playing Halo and ways to develop some skills at it,my girlfriend and household chores ,after a couple of chapters i gave up and got some Halo action online

You actually made it through a couple chapters??? Holy shit.

[Shakabutt]

^Yeah ...the horror ,oh the horror ,the story was actually good ,good seting ,god imagery ,but the only thing that was missing from that fic was the lack of chemistry between Archer and T'Pol ,and an emotional reason of why they were doing what they were doing .....guess some things are the same as the show
But i did kick some ass at Halo that day

[aeverett]

What they are about to see comes down from the time of the beginning, without change. This is the Vulcan heart. This is the Vulcan soul. This is our way. Kah-if-farr.

I've never seen the episode (even though I spoofed it in my SouthTrek for some reason ) but like still if I stick to both the reading I've done and the Amok Time transcript, the whole "from the time of the beginning without change" thing could still be interpreted as refering to the savagery involved like the fight to the death over passion. Which existed in their untamed past before Surak's time. Though I'd assume not for the purpose of settling any chemical imbalance they may or may not have had because they were like killing each other all the time, they were savages so I can't see how killing someone over a mate would be any different for them than killing someone over like I don't know, say stealing their kid's pet sehlat or something. The thing with the kali-fi and the pon farr is that the fight settles the imbalance because of the immense emotional reaction of a now tamed logical Vulcan, which like washes over the chemical/hormonal imbalance bringing it back down to manageable levels rather than lethal levels so that they can go back to their logical selves. Which makes it even harder for me to see how pon farr could have been involved in this before Surak's time since I assume a savage Vulcan wouldn't feel like any intense emotional reaction like extreme guilt, grief or whatever after fighting someone to the death because it's like way too common. Which would make the fight to the death like totally pointless. Yet the traditional ceremony itself is named after this fight to the death - marriage or challenge. And when the ceremony starts the priest/ess announces the time for a challenge which could like either be acted upon or not and then continue with the ceremony. So I see the Vulcan bonding ceremony as being about the challenge and the savagery (from the time of the beginning) rather than the pon farr itself.

I guess it's intepretation. I intepret 'from the time of the beginning' as meaning from the earliest recorded Vulcan times, possibly pre-history. The fact that Kalifee is part of the ceremony, and the fight itself can settle the pon farr, seems too cooincidental. Also the fact that some Vulcans wait to marry their betrothed till they are in the plak to, is also a bit coincidental to make the marriage ceremony completely seperate from the phenomena of pon farr. Again, this is merely my interpretation, no better or worse than yours. The way I see it, ENT era Vulcans would reproduce even without pon farr, as allowing your species to become extrict wouldn't be logical. They would plan it out better, but they would make little Vulcans to replace themselves as merely a logical response to the inevitability of death, even in such a long lived species.

It's odd that we should be discussing this. Shortly after 'Terra Prime' aired, I'd written a vignette where a four year old Spock attends the funeral of a 159 year old Elizabeth Tucker (reports of her demise were greatly exagerated, and she was wisked away to Vulcan after the episode, where she took her Vulcan middle name and lived her life as a Vulcan). His parents, wanting him to be comfortable with his hybrid status, had taught him that hybrids were often preduced in many cultures to counteract shortcomings in both parent species; so somehow, as very young children sometimes do, he had come to the conclusion that if both Vulcans and Humans were suceptible to the shortcoming of death, his hybrid nature was an attempt by both species to cheat death and he would thus be immortal. Elizabeth's death tosses that theory out of the water fast, and Spock is forced, for the first time, to consider his own mortality, that he may be special, but he isn't that special. Before I could finish it, my computer crashed and I let the idea die, but oddly enough, this discussion reminded me of it. Odd.

[TPoptarts]

Dude. When Spock is 4 Elizabeth Tucker would be like 80

[aeverett]

Dude. When Spock is 4 Elizabeth Tucker would be like 80

I thought the show was 150 years before TOS begins. I'm confused timeline wise, maybe.

PS, It's Dudette, not Dude.

[TPoptarts]

^ Well but even so little Spock still needs time to grow up to his TOS age. (Which was like 110 years after ENT) Spock was born in 2230 and Elizabeth Tucker in 2154. Oh and I call everyone Dude