"Divergent Paths" Discussion

[Rigil Kent]

Which is why you would keep a defensive force in orbit over the home world. Its not logical to have ships just wandering around - you defend the soft targets (Earth, Mars, Jupiter Station, the Moon if there are people there, etc.) and ignore the targets that have no real value (Pluto, Uranus, etc.)

Neh, my only answer for this is the same reason Starfleet doesn't have it's fleet: people don't want to build weapons or have "just in case" systems in place until it's already to late.

Man, that's true. My man, Sun Tzu said it best, I think: "“In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.:

Um, did they not notice they had Klingons and Suliban fighting it out on a cornfield in Iowa? Or all the bad guys their flagship ran into for its first two years in space?

Well, in my defense, Columbia was completed over a year before it was in canon. But yeah, the people of Trek's future consistently seem to be kind of dumb (although to be fair, that's pretty much the case with all television shows excepting rare awesomeness like "Justified.")

They'd have to be real morons, indeed.

The first casualty of the Eugenics Wars was common sense.

Also, the Vulcans advising them would have to be idiots.

Or totally invested in keeping humanity subservient and/or dependent upon Vulcan...

And just where did those MACO's come from if they have no standing military?

I've always presumed that the MACOs were sort of a Honor Guard thing (think Yeomen Warders, or Beefeaters as they're commonly known) who aren't really hardcore military types even though the show was trying to portray them as akin to a modern U.S. Army Special Forces A Team or a SEAL Team entirely due to the general lack of competence I saw with the MACOs (which I blame entirely on the showrunners who very obviously didn't know the first thing about how such a special ops team actually works.) Alternately, you could say they were sort of a National Guard/militia unit...

But calling them the actual military is kind of laughable.

[Navigator]

Sixty-four is cool. Into the ship and old scores settled in one smooth move. Well done!

[Rigil Kent]

Sixty-four is cool. Into the ship and old scores settled in one smooth move. Well done!

Ah! You snuck in a remark and I missed it! Sorry. I blame ... Windows Vista. Yeah. That's the ticket.

Anyway, I must admit to being a little surprised that the response to the "old scores being settled" has been almost universally approved of since it isn't very Vulcan-like. My intention was to show, albeit in as subtle a manner as possible, how much Trip's influence had changed T'Pol - vengeance, which this very much was, is exceedingly illogical and ultimately self-destructive (if viewed objectively), so having her take that course of action was actually meant to sort of "rock the boat." So it was with much surprise that everyone seemed to approve ... maybe its a human thing.

Amusing note: I watched the opening scene of IAMD like a dozen times (maybe more) to get some idea of the ship layout (external only), and every time the ramp opens, I smile at just how bright the interior of that ship is, which lends credence to the crappy night vision idea Blackn'Blue floated (which I borrowed.)

[Alelou]

We may eschew vengeance in our own moral life (or think we do, until push comes to shove), but there aren't many people who read fiction and don't like to see the bad guy get what he deserves. She's hardly in a position to charge the dude with a crime and hope he'll be prosecuted, so her solution has a certain logical elegance.

[Rigil Kent]

We may eschew vengeance in our own moral life

I don't. I'm a cold-hearted, cynical bastard when it comes right down to it. Plus? I firmly believe that vengeance is at the heart of every justice system. We just don't want to admit that so we cloak the truth in terms like "justice."

And I love vengeance flicks. "Kill Bill" or most of the old school Bronson flicks or that awesome Liam Neeson movie, "Taken." Nothing is quite as cool as blood-soaked revenge being properly meted out.

She's hardly in a position to charge the dude with a crime and hope he'll be prosecuted, so her solution has a certain logical elegance.

Ah, but in doing so, she's effectively taking a life. They've had enough exposure to this planet now for her to know what is going to happen to Undil and one of Surak's tenets is to avoid taking life whenever possible. Hence, the conflict. Look at the whole Fullara thing ...

Heh.

[Alelou]

Yeah, but Vulcan is also a planet where they still have the death penalty for treason. They clearly aren't really as enlightened as they think they are.

[Rigil Kent]

Yeah, but Vulcan is also a planet where they still have the death penalty for treason.

Really? Is that canonical? I don't actually remember that (which probably says more about my memory than anything else.)

[aadarshinah]

Yeah, but Vulcan is also a planet where they still have the death penalty for treason.

Really? Is that canonical? I don't actually remember that (which probably says more about my memory than anything else.)

Yeah, in "Kir'shara":

V'LAS: Welcome home, Subcommander.
T'POL: I no longer hold that rank.
V'LAS: Well, you may have joined Starfleet, but you're still Vulcan. And subject to our laws. There are few crimes still punishable by execution, but treason is one of them. (a beeping sound) What is it?

[Rigil Kent]

See? Like I said, crap memory anymore.

[Alelou]

I only remember it because it stuck out like a sore thumb on a planet where people won't even eat domestic animals because they think it's barbaric.

[aadarshinah]

Perhaps they see it as "humane," - like putting down an animal that's in unbearable pain. This of course works with the assumption that the traitor would feel guilt for his/her action and it would slowly have a HAL-esque mental breakdown...

[Rigil Kent]

Or alternately, it's just another symptom of Romulan influence.

I'd probably forgotten this line because I was ultimately dissatisfied with the whole Vulcan arc, but that's neither here nor there.

[Navigator]

Anyway, I must admit to being a little surprised that the response to the "old scores being settled" has been almost universally approved of since it isn't very Vulcan-like

Actually, it could be argued that it is logical. The behavior of Undil and the Staff-Adjutant can be readily seen from their past actions to be counter to that necessary to lead the planet or even their country or region to peace and prosperity. The Ekosians really need peace and prosperity. Therefore, removing them increases the probability of a good outcome. The needs of the many, etc. She did learn the how part of getting rid of them from Trip; the why part is pretty homegrown.

I also liked the really bright lights idea in the ship. Duty on the Enterprise in a cold twilight would be pretty depressing - sort of like banished to Siberia. That would have been cool to do in the show. Have her quarters absolutely Sahara desert noon time bright, and have a box of dark glasses on the bulkhead outside her door.

[Rigil Kent]

I also liked the really bright lights idea in the ship. Duty on the Enterprise in a cold twilight would be pretty depressing - sort of like banished to Siberia. That would have been cool to do in the show. Have her quarters absolutely Sahara desert noon time bright, and have a box of dark glasses on the bulkhead outside her door.

That certainly would have been a nice thing to include, but would require a level of competence that most Hollywood writers seem incapable of possessing these days.

What? Bitter? Well ... maybe. If so, I blame the absolute dross that passes as modern entertainment...

[enterprikayak]

Yeah, by the 24th century, they had figured it out: bright lights. On the bridge. In the sickbay. You know. So's you can see? (Course that all good sense went away with DS9 and voy) *sigh*

Cinematic frikking drama should not enter into it. I don't care if it's a TV show. Cinematic lighting on a starship is the dumbest thing ever. Do the people up on the space station today creep around like grubs in the dim, bashing their various squashy body parts against various hard metal ship parts?

i don't think so.


let there be light.