Vulcan Arc

[Silverbullet]

Vulcans are three times stronger than Humans in an Earth Gravity!!. They can handle Vulcan gravity but their strength is now attuned to that gravity. Trip would still be at a disadvantage because of the Gravity and Atmosphere.

Why should Koss expect that T-Pol would invoke the death match challenge. If they had been bethrothed all of tose years. bit late in the day to change yuor mind. He had no reason to believe that she would fall for a human.

So, Koss probably would not have been in training for years he was an Architect he had too many projects going to be thinking of death matches that probably would not occur. Hell T-Pol was on a human ship and had served on Earth before that. Koss would expect a Vulcan opponent and t-Pol would probably not have one in cold storage.

Koss having lived on vulcan all of his life and never had any interactions with Humans would believe that being a Vulcan he was superior in every way and could easily handle trip even if he had not touched a weapon in years.

As for handling the Vulcan weapons. the first is almost self explaining: Half moon blade on one end and a club on the other. Any trained fighter especiallly a combat trained fighter is experienced in picking and using a foreign weapon in combat if that is all that is available. MIght take a minute or two to figure it out. Trip would be able to get a good idea of what was esxpected of the weapon. He would have to finish Koss off in a hurry anyway so any other weapons would be superfulous. If they had to go to other weapons Trip was toast anyway as the gravity ane Atmosphere would have him down for the count.

As it stands Koss has absolutely no reason to expect that T-Pol would invoke the death match. No reason to expect that she would choose a Human as her champion. No reason to expect that he could not win the fight easily as he was a uuperior Vulcan. All of that would make Koss vulnerable. Overconfidence has killed many a man.

[WarpGirl]

You're right dear, but do you know how rare Kal'i'fee is after Surak? VERY VERY rare. But that can back up the need for training, whether the opponent is Vulcan, human, or even Andorian! Vulcan couples usually meet once or twice before the wedding, and I doubt that they stalk each other finding out every move made up until the wedding. All of this makes for a very unpredictable situation, the logical thing to do is to be prepared for ANYTHING to happen. Especially if a case of Pon Farr was involved. And let me just say that if Koss had been in Pon Farr Trip would have been dead when he opened the door. So training makes sense if you might have to fight for your bride.

[Alelou]

I will rewatch Home to see who first came up with the marriage challenge reference in the conversation between T'Pol and Koss. Even so, it does not matter to my point in that Koss's words, body language, and voice tone expressed the thought that he was being a bit arrogent about the possibility of a human challenging him.

No need to rewatch when Chrissie's Transcripts Sites is back up:

KOSS: I want to hear about your life aboard the human ship. You must have many fascinating stories.
T'POL: Why are you here?
KOSS: The answer should be obvious.
T'POL: You've received my letters. You know I'm not interested in marriage.
KOSS: The decision isn't ours alone. My parents believe in the old traditions. For them, a betrothal cannot simply be dismissed.
T'POL: You have the option of choosing another mate.
KOSS: I don't want another mate.
T'POL: You should be aware I've been ill recently.
KOSS: Ill?
T'POL: It could take some time for me to recover, assuming it's even possible.
KOSS: I can help. My father's a man of influence. I knows the finest doctors in the province. I intend to go through with this.
T'POL: What if I declare the kal-if-fee?
KOSS: Is that what you want? A fight to the death? Perhaps your human friend would make a suitable challenger.
T'POL: You find this amusing.
KOSS: No. Call a challenger if you wish. I'll do whatever's necessary.
T'POL: It's best if you leave.
KOSS: I may be able to help your mother.
T'POL: What do you mean?
KOSS: My father could have her reinstated.
T'POL: She retired.
KOSS: She was asked to resign.
T'POL: Why?
KOSS: I've said more than I should. If we were to marry, you'd only have to live on Vulcan for one year. You could resume your career with Starfleet after that.
T'POL: Is that what you want, an absent wife?
KOSS: I'd want you to be happy.
T'POL: You should go.

[WarpGirl]

KOSS: The decision isn't ours alone. My parents believe in the old traditions. For them, a betrothal cannot simply be dismissed.

You know, this for me says that Koss wasn't really acting out of his own self-interests. Yes, he said he didn't want another mate, but if all he wanted was T'Pol he would have said... "The decision isn't yours to make." Obviously his parents had A LOT to do with what happened.

For the discussion on T'Pol, Koss, Trip and Kal'i'fee look here... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169

[Silverbullet]

I thought that in Breaking the Ice the Parents broke the Bethrohal. T-Pol seemed to think they had.

So if the bethrothal had been broke by the parents then Koss was lying.

Damned writers sure turned everything on it's head when writing this episode.

NO Bethrthal then T-Pol was not bound by tradition to marry him.

Why should she believe him when he said that Mom was forced to retkre.

Whole scene was pure Crap.

Why did Koss even mention Trip as t-Pol's champion.

[Silverbullet]

Sorry for the same post being put up twice. (Fixed- Distracted)

also, I cannot get near the computer and on a Board but wife wants to talk to me, phone call, or someone wants to chat over Windows Live.

that is what just happened and was not able to finish what i wanted to write in post. Train of thought has been broke so I will have to be satisfied with what is there.

[WarpGirl]

Technically she said they would cancel the WEDDING not the betrothal. Big difference. Why did Koss mention Trip? Simple, Trip WAS THERE in T'Pol's home and Vulcan women don't bring home aquaintences or colleagues home unattended, especially not HUMANS! Koss isn't stupid he figured out T'Pol wanted Trip as her mate. Who else would she call?

[Silverbullet]

Funny I got the idea that the parents called the whole thing off. Cancel the wedding, pissed as hell, cancel the bethrothal. why stick with a female who would rather stay with Humans than marry their beloved Son. they could find him a far better mate and nearer to home.

Still think the Bethrothal was broken.

I mean t-Pol sure acted like it was. Getting all bent out of shape at Trip in Unexpected. Jealous in Oasis.

finally dragging him into bed in Harbinger. Doesn't sound like afemale who believes she is Engaged to some guy.

[WarpGirl]

True but it doesn't matter what she thought, canceling a wedding doesn't mean canceling an engagement. As to why stick with T'pol? Politics. The truth is they didn't bother to explain any of it, which is typical. And right now I'm watching "Precious Cargo" and it's a good thing I can't speak because I wan to scream!

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Repeating myself here, from my FAQ file that I've posted here and there before re: the motivations of Koss.


I have a pet theory that I've had ever since I first saw Home and the Vulcan arc.

Koss, or at least his parents, are Syrrannites. And the Syrrannites wants T'Les back at her old job at the Academy, presumably to help them dig out info on old artifacts such as the Kir'Shara from the archives or something. But even if Koss's dad is a high ranking official (a government minister or something, I don't recall exactly) he just can't put T'Les back without arousing suspicion and expose himself. He has to have a good motive that won't alert Administrator V'Las and his people. If Koss and T'Pol marry then T'Les becomes family (an in-law) and that would be legitimate enough for him to help T'Les.

In this scenario Koss doesn't even have to know the reasons. He's a dutiful son obeying his parents. And the wishes of T'Pol are of no concern. The Syrrannites must have T'Les back at the Academy. So T'Pau and Koss's dad manipulate the situation with the help of T'Les, even if T'Les gets to feel very guilty about it when she learns about the depth of TnT's feelings for each other.

This scenario would also highlight how ruthless T'Pau and the Syrrannites can be when furthering their own agenda. It would also track with the old T'Pau we saw in TOS Amok Time.

[WarpGirl]

Awsome! BTW You gave "Precious Cargo" too many T'Pol Bums. Yuck! Trip was idiotic, and he got saved by the girl with a stick. Come on he threw his punches perfectly stupid alien should have gone down like a sack of concrete. Oh and don't get me started on Archer's interregation.

Yeah it makes no sense to me that T'Les became a Syrranite AFTER she was fired despite what the episode says. I concur with KTR.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Awsome! BTW You gave "Precious Cargo" too many T'Pol Bums. Yuck!

Well, I only gave it a 2. I couldn't possibly give it fewer than Twilight, which also got a 2.

Yeah it makes no sense to me that T'Les became a Syrranite AFTER she was fired despite what the episode says.

I doesn't really say when T'Les became a Syrrannite. It stands to reason, especially if you consider her friendship with T'Pau, that she's been a Syrrannite for a long time, probably many years.

[WarpGirl]

Did I sound witchy? Sorry I'm so high on cold meds I can't judge. I checked your review page I didn't see any for "Twilight" hmm. Still I think it was very generous to give 2 of anything to "Precious Cargo" Still your observations were wonderful, (even if I hated the "interregation" scene.)

I remember in the caves T'Les tells T'Pol that after she was framed, she began to "question" the VHC and the beliefs she held. I thought it implied she joined the Syrranites sometime after the wedding. And it doesn't make sense. I like your theory better.

[Silverbullet]

I still cannot seee the father doing anything about T-Les and her job. He would have to take on the high council and he would not do that.

The High Council got after T-Les and they would not look with favor on anyone espeically an assistant miinister meddling in something they were involved in.

It would have been too risky for the fatheer and would not have helped the group he belonged to if he got in trouble. the Hight command would start to look at him and have him investigated. that is why a Bearucrat (sp) will not stick his neck for anyone at anytime. FEAR. A beareucrat will watch him mother go to the Guillitine and not do anything. Also why if you expect help out of one you are too damned naive. They won't do anything even if they knnow they won't get hurt. They live in fear and nothing will bring them out of the defensive crouch they live in.

Marriage or no marriage Father would not help t-Les in any way.

Now he might Con T-Les into believeing he would so she would help coerce t-Pol into marrying his son because Koss wants T-Pol even if she despises him. but after wedding he would just tell T-Les that he was unable to do anything and t-Pol would be in a marruage she would be miserable in the rest of her life.

[WarpGirl]

WOW! Now that is an assumption, I'm not sure I can get behind at all. Jeeze! You really hate Koss and his family don't you? Considering Koss is only in 3 episodes and we never meet the parents, I think you might be a little harsh in this. Now don't get me wrong I like "Good Koss" and "Bad Koss" stories. But I didn't see anything about the guy that says Sneaky, lying, corrupt, snake! Certainly nothing that said his parents were terrible people that would go back on their word. T'Les CHOSE not to go back to the Science Academy after the wedding. Poor Koss and family to be so hated and maligned.