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"Harbinger" was on yesterday (love that one!).

At the end when Trip says with that cute smile that there's no reason they can't continue with the neuropressure and T'Pol gives him a very odd look, it seems to me like she's supressing a smile behind that cup. So...what I get out of that whole exchange is, "yeah, right, just neurporessure, sure...uh huh....." And then they end up sleeping together, again.

I think "The Third Knot." got it just about perfect as to what would happen.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1750652/1/The_Third_Knot

Based on Tip's question to T'Pol about what she told her mother about them - I've decided that they were "romantically involved" and sleeping together from Harbinger up until they went to Vulcan.

Agree? Disagree?

Disagree in the beginning of "E2" he goes to her for nuropressure and she asks him if they could stop. At least that's what I read on memory-alpha. Personally I don't see how a night of jealousy induced drug fueled sex is in any way romantic, or loving. Whatever happened to waiting until your wedding night? Why isn't that romantic anymore? Romeo and Juliet waited, Elizabeth Barrett Browning wrote some of the most beautiful poetry of the English language about it. Not that I have direct knowledge but I'm willing to bet the sex would have been much better for them both if they knew it came with commitment.

I don't have E2 on my DVR yet - so I'll have to take your word on that until I do, but I didn't see their first night as "a night of jealousy induced drug fueled sex" at all, especially since in retrospect T'Pol was subconsciously (I think) claiming him as hers right then and there. She didn't want to loose him to Cole. ANd I think she definately had romantic feelings for him because of what she said when Trip told her people were talking and she say "who cares?" AND because of her reation to Sim. I think she was falling in love with him and had no idea what to do about it. And then lust took over, too.

Aikiweezie wrote:I don't have E2 on my DVR yet - so I'll have to take your word on that until I do, but I didn't see their first night as "a night of jealousy induced drug fueled sex" at all, especially since in retrospect T'Pol was subconsciously (I think) claiming him as hers right then and there. She didn't want to loose him to Cole.

Good point and I'll agree with you that her instincts said "Claim him now before you kill the human tramp!" But is jealousy a good motivator for intimacy? Especially when one party has no experience with it and her partner has a completely different cultural set of guidelines? Look what happens afterwards, it's a bloody mess where they both end up miserable. All in all, not romantic, and very bad judgment call for both of them. Trip should have said no, I mean come on he knows there hasn't been any men in her life. He knows she's jealous, and he knows that she has no way of dealing with the consequences, because he knows her! Really acting on physical attraction and lust is more often than not a bad idea. "Harbinger" proved that.

I don't want to get into a moral discussion about sex - I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks they continues with their physical relationship - despite what was said in Harbinger - after they agreed to Forgeddaboutit - as we say in Chicago.

I do not think it was a one time thing. And I betcha they resumed some level of intimacy after he came back from Columbia, too.

After he came back from Columbia, I don't see why they wouldn't at least they'd be committed to an actual relationship. Besides you can't get anymore joined together than a mental and physiological link. Remember Trip's body was immune to those Orion tramps not just his mind and heart. I didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing I have my beliefs but they're mine and I get that. But according to the episodes in season 3 it was a one-night-stand. <shudders>

Frankly, a lot about their situation would be a case for NOT waiting.

For one thing, they do a dangerous job, and especially through that whole Xindi thing, you tend to not wait when you just may not BE there tomorrow. Second, there are some illicit aspects to a romantic/sexual relationship between them: namely the interspecies aspect is probably quite taboo to both parties' cultures, and the fact that they are second- and third-in-command puts them in a tenuous position in terms of propriety. Such an illicit nature tends to add a lot of urgency and passion to a romance, so it will burn brightly and quickly.

For T'Pol's part, like it or not, she's begun a journey of self-discovery, and she's using drugs to help her get there, not unlike the way many intellectuals of the 60s did. It makes perfect sense to me that she would experiment sexually along with her emotional explorations.

And, they're consenting adults. To some people, marriage doesn't make sex more romantic. Hell, some people prefer not being married at all.

Either way, I think there are equally legitimate cases for both sides, continuing the sexual relationship vs. not.

I think it was pretty clear that they did not continue with any physical relationship post-Harbinger. I also got the distinct impression that they didn't do much - if any - neuropressure either, despite what was said in the morning after scene.

The only period I can imagine them becoming somewhat intimate again (before Bound) is after they get back from the Expanse and the Alien Nazi adventure, but before Home. However, I doubt they had any sexual relations then.

Kevin Thomas Riley wrote:The only period I can imagine them becoming somewhat intimate again (before Bound) is after they get back from the Expanse and the Alien Nazi adventure, but before Home. However, I doubt they had any sexual relations then.

I might be able to go with that. T'Pol seemes awfully concerned about Trip while he was gone. And the poor dear was all beat up when he got back - maybe a nice little fic about her wanting to help him feel better or something is in order - hmmmm.........

I'm trying to talk myself into writing my first Enterprise fan fic - that's where I'm going with all this. I'm trying to sort stuff out.

I am convince, hoewver - that they DID resume their sexual relations after Bound, though. And I'm sticking to it!!!!!

Well if your writing a fic you can do just about anything. Unless it's someone else's idea of course. All you really have to do is make sure it makes sense and is true to the characters. Heck if you follow the rules too closely it'll be as confusing as the show! There is a reason they have an AU genera, do what you want.

WarpGirl wrote:There is a reason they have an AU general, do what you want.

I guess I'm one of those "canon people." I just can't get into the AU stuff. I am pretty good on exploiting "holes" and off-screen stuff, though.

HOWEVER - THE "ABOMINATION" DOES NOT COUNT IN CANON BECAUSE ITWAS STUPID AND WRONG!!!!!!!

That reasoning makes no sense to me really. Unfortunately *the_abomination* is in fact canon and just because it's "stupid and wrong" doesn't change that. That being said I have an inherent disrespect for any canon that violates itself, promotes sexism (Star Wars), and reeks of bad story-telling. Therefore I pick and choose, my only rule make it clear and have it make sense in a story.

Well, strictly speaking, *the_abomination* is canon (i.e. it was shown in live action on screen). But so was Twilight and that didn't really happen in the proper Trek and ENT continuity. So while *the_abomination* is canon, you can say it's not part of the continuity. After all, it was just a holo-novel set 200 years in the future.

Ah superior logic and an amazing cop-out all in one. I tip my hat to you sir.

Kevin Thomas Riley wrote:So while *the_abomination* is canon, you can say it's not part of the continuity. After all, it was just a holo-novel set 200 years in the future.

Yeah - what Kevin said!!!!!!! That AND it reeks of bad story-telling, too.