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I'm really getting cranky lately. I've taken time to read a lot of stories lately and some people here seem to have a serious knack for angst. Can someone please explain a village idiot from Germany what the appeal of it is?

Two prime examples. Dinah's "Thorne and the Rose" or the "Commander Tucker...whatever" series. TnT are put through useless suffering usually with T'Pol being protrayed as a manipulative ice cold bitch. What the hell is up with that

The latter Chapters of Dinah's story are some of the best I ever read. That whole story has influenced me heavily, but the first 5 or 6 chapters require an antidepressant. Why is it in so many stories that the two are put through useless suffering and contrived angst, didn't we get enough of that in the TV series? I'm really havin' a hard time getting my head around it

I'm not sure I have an answer for you! I never thought about it before. I think I agree with you in that poor Trip & T'Pol had SO MUCH angst in the series they were due for some good things in the years following. I like happy endings and really like stories that give them that. We all have angst in our lives - piling it on Trip & T'Pol so heavily just seems cruel. But it sure can make for some good reading.

Kotik, I can't answer for Dinah, but the angst in the Commander Tucker...Whatever series comes from me trying to stay in canon and fill in blanks in a way that make sense to me, given the angst I see on the screen. In my own defense, I do try to ultimately give them the happy ending I think they deserve.

Everybody has a different tolerance for angst. You should probably just avoid my stuff. I love to explore misunderstandings and conflict, which I believe are somewhat inevitable between two people with significant differences (i.e. one's a man and one's a woman, but the Human/Vulcan thing is in there too ).

Other people hate this, and bully for them if their own experience is that real couples go through life happily and harmoniously. And God bless them if they also find that interesting enough to read and write about. Frankly, I can generally only put up with happily married Tuckers if there's some other major conflict to make a piece interesting. So, I enjoyed all the TnT angst in Dinah's early work, and I also enjoy the external-to-TnT political intrigues and threats in her later work. However, I don't think I read the later stuff with quite the same interest and intensity as I read the early stuff.

As far as coldhearted T'Pol, that's a difference of interpretation too. Personally, I never think she's coldhearted, but I certainly often have her behaving in a way that looks coldhearted to Humans. My T'Pol is often Vulcan to a fault, which is what I believe the one on the television was. Many people hate that about my T'Pol. (Asso, for example. ) Others like it.

It all comes down to different strokes for different folks.

Angst can be fun. I love to cry over the stories I read. Why???? IDK . . . There IS no explaining it. You either get it or you don't. Great stories without angst, hmm . . . . Elessar does it every once in a while: "Ill Go First," "Skin Deep." It's hard to write a long story with no angst. And why would you want to?

This reminds me of a time in Thailand when at a retreat, part of the program was an open discussion between Thai and non-Thai (farong) staff: Questions you always wanted to ask about the other culture but were afraid to ask. As I recall little was accomplished.


Question from a Thai: Why don't farong like chicken feet salad?

Answer from farong: ???????? How can you eat a chicken foot?????

(Chicken feet salad is literally a pile of chicken feet with salad dressing.)

@Alelou

I stopped "Commander Tucker proposes" after chapter 4 - it was really too much to take

Am I the only one who ever stopped reading a story because the angst junk got too much, maybe I'm just bein' stupid or soft or whatever

I guess my stuff comes as close as you can get to zero angst. It does not appeal to many people which is probably why very few write them like that. There seems to be a much broader audience for angst. I myself find it agreeable to shed tears over the plight of our beloved couple sometimes.

I think of it as a major challenge to write interesting together couples. It can be done, but it takes a lot of work - and you have to weave a lot of external problems/adventures/situations around the couple. I enjoy the challenge, though.

That said, I love a good angst-y story, in the right mood.

Kotik wrote:@Alelou

I stopped "Commander Tucker proposes" after chapter 4 - it was really too much to take

That one got awfully heavy, I know, and that chapter was long before their kid died, which actually marks the point when things begin to turn up in that story. (And how weird is that?) You're not the only one to give up on it. I'm honestly trying to think if I have any stuff that isn't at least a bit angsty, and nothing comes to mind.

But thanks for mentioning it anyway, since I had to go back and refresh my memory of how many chapters CTP had, and there was a nice new review to read.

Kotik wrote:@Alelou

I stopped "Commander Tucker proposes" after chapter 4 - it was really too much to take

Am I the only one who ever stopped reading a story because the angst junk got too much, maybe I'm just bein' stupid or soft or whatever

Mhhh... I think you have to read some of my comments about angst (if you want to do that, obvioulsly). And (still if you want to) some of my stories, too.

The "Reconnecting" Series on Trip-T'Pol-ers is a prime example of a glorious story without TnT outright hurting each other constantly.

As somebody who really doesn't like angst so much but apparently can't write any other thing I must say that, yes, I can perfectly leave a story if there is too much angst (the kind of "oh, my God, I want to cut my veins!") but I surely will leave it much earlier if: a) it has the characterizations wrong (even in AU. If something is different explain why, or else I will think you don't know the character), b) it's BORING or c) has zero humor (because something that I like about TnT is this comical vibe they have together.)

On the other hand, people tend to mistake angst for pathos. See, angst is that teen feeling of depression and extreme emotions that doesn't have room for anything else. Pathos is about reflecting emotions, about writing them with honesty and knowledge. Not every emotion has to be positive and the road of love (especially if it's long) is never easy. So yeah, I can take some "Trip and T'Pol has their issues" if they're real and believable.

If the author promises there is going to be a happy ending (I'm looking at you, Alelou) I can take more angst than I usually do. But only if the story is good and compelling.

I must say that I can bear angst more easily than fluff, just because usually fluff is plain boring. One of the exceptions of a very happily Tucker family that I actually bear is bluetiger's, and that's because she can make her stories funny and sweet and can talk about other things, serious things, in a deceivingly light manner.

PS: Asso doesn't enter in the cathegory because some of his stories aren't fluff at all! Yes, my Italian friend, I'm talking about you

Thanks Escriba, today in particular I needed to hear that my 'happy Tuckers' are okay.

bluetiger wrote:Thanks Escriba, today in particular I needed to hear that my 'happy Tuckers' are okay.

Obviously they are (read your reviews). It is a challenge to write happy family stories that are still interesting. I think yours succeed because your happy family has interesting quirks and a spirit of adventure. But I confess, I think I liked Hostage best because it had a suspenseful exterior conflict going.

People have different tastes. I read a lot of fanfic, but I give up pretty quickly when I encounter the following:
1. Tortured basic language mechanics or usage.
2. Characters behaving in ways I don't feel are true to them.
3. Heavy axes grinding against certain characters (usually Archer)
4. Story concepts that I find really irritating. Like balls. You mention a ball or a ball gown and I'm probably going to click out of there before that sentence ends. That's just me, so don't take it personally. Ditto Malcolm and drowning.
5. Really longwinded stuff.

For me if the angst comes from the development of the relationship and a realistic view of the circumstances TnT might find themselves in it is fine. I don't like contrived beyond belief angst but unless my life has been abnormal angst comes with living and if there's an emotional relational involved and/or kids it's all the more likely to be a part of day to day life. It's nice to strive for the happily ever after, and if a couple doesn't get some of that what's the point, but I think it's unrealistic to think anyone's life is going to be angst free.

Deleted accidental re-post.