JadziaKathryn wrote:I think George Kirk's death did a couple things: established this was an AU and gave Kirk a reason for a troubled childhood, as well as giving Kirk a reason to recognize that Vulcan was under attack.
Thing is, there's plenty to establish this isn't the original timeline even before Narda attacks the Kelvin. The Kelvin herself fits in design-wise with the fugly Abramsprise a lot more than it did with anything established in TOS for that era. Then there's everything that happened with Spock's character, since Spock wouldn't have been affected by the destruction of Kelvin, and the same could probably be said of Scotty ending up marooned on an ice planet with an alien sidekick. And even with the Narda's incursion, I really see no reason why there would be such radical changes in things like design and technology level without interference from Old Spock, and from what I understand there is none in that way. So to be frank the AU explanation was a weak excuse at best to change how everything looked and the characters themselves. That's why I would have had more respect for a straight up reboot, even if I still hated that it was a reboot.
KKGlinka wrote:I'm honestly bemused and baffled by the common interpretation that the primary timeline was eradicated by the events in this movie. Even moreso by anyone who would claim that Star Trek has consistently used the single timeline expression. Between Mirror Universe episodes, Year of Hell, Twilight, Yesterday's Enterprise and myriad other episodes, it's readily apparent that Trek uses the temporal paradox expression.
While the mirror universe and different AUs were shown to exist independent of the main timeline we followed throughout the franchise, that's just the point, they exist independently from the main timeline, so this movie is without any real point then. All the other examples you gave were reset and put everything back to the way it presumably was supposed to have turned out, which is frankly why I never understood why people liked episodes like that. Yesterday's Enterprise illustrates what KTR and I are trying to say quite well though, in that when the E-C entered that temporal vortex and disappeared from its proper place and time, we saw the changes in the regular timeline take place simultaneously. The way it's shown and described as happening in Abrams Trek suggests that shouldn't have happened, because it would have been impossible for the E-C to enter the future of its own universe and no changes would have happened due to its absence from its own time, and we wouldn't have seen any change take place after the E-D detected its presence in the vortex.
Yesterday's Enterprise is a perfect example of the Grandfather Paradox as Sela would not exist if her mother hadn't arrived from an alternate timeline generated between 2344 and 2364.
Thing is, Sela's existence was shown as a lasting effect of Picard allowing Yar to go back with the E-C. Guinin even chewed his ass out because their problem with the Klingon Civil War would not have gone down the way it did had Picard not allowed Yar to go back with the E-C. instead, the E-C's crew probably would have been killed entirely, and either another Romulan would have done the things Sela did, or they would not have happened at all.
The temporal paradox you describe would be more akin to the E-D's repeated destruction in Cause and Effect.
That's all this movie is. A really big temporal paradox loop existing between the destruction of the Kelvin and the supernova. The regular reality is carrying on just fine. If I had to make an educated doctor who fan guess, when Spock!2 becomes an old man, he will find some way, as heavily foreshadowed by Spock!1, to be in two places at the same time. Spock!1 will be delayed by the Vulcan council as before, in their passive but deliberate decision to allow the Romulan sun to go supernova and destroy their enemies. Spock!2 from this alternate reality will use an _insert plot device here_ to stop the supernova. While Vulcan remains destroyed within the paradox loop, both planets survive in the regular timeline.
Except there's no way to do that without coming up with yet another contrived time travel plot designed to hit the reset button, making the entire movie pointless to begin with.
So I didn't have any problem enjoying this bombastic, melodramatic submarine in space blast that is actually making me like the TOS characters. At least, one version of them.
I, for one, didn't need any of the changes Abrams made to make me like the TOS characters.
KKGlinka wrote:They are pointless (even if you were obviously over-simplifying the temporal mechanics involved using any given theory of time)... to anyone outside of that given timeline.
Then why do episodes or movies about it at all? Why should I or anyone else care about the characters in this AU?