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Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:21 pm
by Linda
Elizabeth Tucker (Trip's sister). I wanted more of a back story. And of course I wanted her to somehow survive and appear later for a reunion with her brother. I know some fans don't want that because they feel Trip would have suffered for nothing if she really turned up alive. But even Trip said "I'd do anything to get her back." So
Sherlock Holmes came back from the dead!
Kov! I wanted to see Trip and Kov meet again. I imagined Trip and Kov dragging in some old engine parts into the mess hall to work on at a table in the corner while they have lunch. And I see Hoshi saying "get those dirty old things out of here!" Then I see Hoshi writing a sign in English and Vulcan and posting it on the mess hall door "No engine parts allowed in here".
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:56 pm
by CoffeeCat
The idea of Spock/Saavik never did it for me - actually, it kinda repulses me after reading the "Pandora Principle" and thinking that Spock actually raised her since she was ten years old. The whole thing seems so incestuous and just ruins both characters for me -- actually, I really didn't like Spock that much after Star Trek III. He went from being my absolute favorite TOS character to just plain wrong. Particularly in Star Trek: VI when he mind rapes Valaris. It's like they turned a completely awesome character into a dirty old man.
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:28 pm
by Distracted
It actually wasn't Spock/Saavik, though, on screen. It was Spock's teenage clone/Saavik. Saavik had a thing for Kirk's son, who they killed off pretty stupidly, IMO. I can see how she ends up marrying Spock, though, since after helping the clone survive Ponfarr on the Genesis planet, I would guess she's bonded to him. Dunno how adding Spock's katra to the mix would affect that, though. I've never read the books. It's an interesting idea, though. If she had sex with the clone and bonded to him, would she still be bonded after Spock's katra got stuck in there too? What happened to the poor clone's katra? I know he was just alive for maybe a couple of weeks before they put Spock's katra back in, but he wasn't Spock. Spock's body was dead. Did the books even address the ethical dilemma of sticking Spock's katra back into a body that was technically a different individual?
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:33 pm
by CoffeeCat
True - Spock/Saavik is mostly trash hatched out of the novels and fans who try to fit all the novels into canon. I've never read the Spock/Saavik marriage book. Though I did attempt it once, but I was just so repulsed by the pairing that I put it down.
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:42 pm
by leslina
CoffeeCat wrote: -- actually, I really didn't like Spock that much after Star Trek III. He went from being my absolute favorite TOS character to just plain wrong. Particularly in Star Trek: VI when he mind rapes Valaris. It's like they turned a completely awesome character into a dirty old man.
You know, it's interesting that you say that. In the past few weeks I've been re-watching the Trek films and it occurred to me just how big a slut Spock is! I mean, seriously, is there NOTHING he won't mind meld with? Sheesh. He's a mind meld whore!
ST: TMP - The Alien Entity
ST II - McCoy, granted that was somewhat necessary.
ST III - No one. I was shocked!
ST IV - Gracie, the whale,
ST V - Shocked again!
ST VI - Kim Cattrall's cute lil Vulcan, who was really a Romulan, Valaris.
He's a Vulcan whore!
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:39 pm
by Eian Flannagan
leslina wrote:You know, it's interesting that you say that. In the past few weeks I've been re-watching the Trek films and it occurred to me just how big a slut Spock is! I mean, seriously, is there NOTHING he won't mind meld with? Sheesh. He's a mind meld whore!
Oh, and don't forget all the mind melds he performed in TOS! Remember the silicone-based Horta? The same episode that gave us:
"Dammit, Jim. I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!"
Eian
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:02 am
by leslina
Eian Flannagan wrote:Oh, and don't forget all the mind melds he performed in TOS! Remember the silicone-based Horta? The same episode that gave us:
"Dammit, Jim. I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!"
Eian
Classic. When Vulcan's do something, they sure don't do it by halves. From mind meld phobes to mind meld nymphos.
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:07 am
by CX
I don't know about the other stuff, but I'm still pretty pissed about Spock mind-raping Valaris for something he knew all along he could've just called up Sulu and ask, like he did a few seconds afterwards anyway.
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:08 am
by CoffeeCat
Yep - I think that was definitely one of the worst character assassinations I've ever seen in Star Trek. Egh - I think it would at least make one of the top three anyway. I think that may be why TOS doesn't excite me anymore. I mean - how can one write a character as awesome as Mr. Spock - as a Tolaris? It just blows my mind when I think about it as an actual canon event.
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:10 am
by Eian Flannagan
CoffeeCat wrote:Yep - I think that was definitely one of the worst character assassinations I've ever seen in Star Trek. Egh - I think it would at least make one of the top three anyway. I think that may be why TOS doesn't excite me anymore. I mean - how can one write a character as awesome as Mr. Spock - as a Tolaris? It just blows my mind when I think about it as an actual canon event.
That just begs the question: Does Spock's meld with Valeris cause you to go back and re-think, with suspicion, all of his actions throughout TOS and the early movies or just take it all at face value?
Eian
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:40 am
by thecursor
Considering he was desperate to stop a war with the Klingons and that he really did need to know how deep that conspiracy went, I'm willing to give it to him. Though you are right, the fact that he could've just as easily learned where the conferance was by picking up the phone and calling Sulu was a little ineffiecent.
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:54 am
by leslina
thecursor wrote:Considering he was desperate to stop a war with the Klingons and that he really did need to know how deep that conspiracy went, I'm willing to give it to him. Though you are right, the fact that he could've just as easily learned where the conferance was by picking up the phone and calling Sulu was a little ineffiecent.
It was not
logical.
I wonder if it was a strong arm tactic to make Spock seem
edgier. First nailing the hot chick on Genesis and then Bad Ass Spock with the forced mind melding. Either way, it took away from his character rather than endear him to the fans.
On a side note, your sig cracks me up every time I read it TC. I own
Big Trouble in Little China, but Encore's been running it so much this summer my copy's been collecting dust on my shelf. So many great, cheesy liners in that one.
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:51 pm
by Asso
Excuse me if I could seem sour, but frankly I think we are talking of hokums, here and now.
After TOS, nobody and nothing are worth a darn, regarding Spock, Kirk and Co., in my mind.
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:10 pm
by thecursor
leslina wrote:
On a side note, your sig cracks me up every time I read it TC. I own Big Trouble in Little China, but Encore's been running it so much this summer my copy's been collecting dust on my shelf. So many great, cheesy liners in that one.
"It's all in the reflexes."
Re: Most Shafted Star Trek Side Characters
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:35 pm
by leslina
thecursor wrote:leslina wrote:
On a side note, your sig cracks me up every time I read it TC. I own Big Trouble in Little China, but Encore's been running it so much this summer my copy's been collecting dust on my shelf. So many great, cheesy liners in that one.
"It's all in the reflexes."
"This is gonna take crackerjack timing."