Star Trek: the new movie.

[WarpGirl]

Amen! I ignore DS9 and I consider myself a Trekkie. And if the movie gets someone interested in the rest more power to them. I like most AU stuff [i]Twilight will probably be a HUGE exception. Even though I think Robbie McNiell is one of the best Trek directors out there. So I don't see myself hating the movie because it's AU. But I AM terribly worried that I won't like the actors interpitations of the characters. I am TERRIFIED of what they've done to Scotty. BUT I will reserve judgement until I've seen the movie. And maybe, just MAYBE I'll think its a blast and like it for what it is. Anew timeline, or an AU.

[Asso]

I have a deep sentimental attachment to the Trek history built up by TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and the first, what is it?, ten or eleven movies - even with all its contradictions and alternate universes and stuff some of us reject like Trip's death. It is a very large canon. But if the AU shown in the new movie is attracting a whole new set of Star Trek fans, I say GREAT! It keeps the franchise alive. And they do still have to learn something of "old" or if you prefer "traditional" Trek to be able to rebel against it, ha, ha. And from what people are saying, liking the new movie is making new fans dig into traditional Trek? GREAT! We may get new fans of the old stuff! Hey, there are fans who only accept certain of the old series saying things like "TOS is the only true Trek" or "I like TNG and DS9 but VOY and ENT are not Trek". So rejecting parts of Trek is nothing new.

Personally, I find something to like in all the Trek iterations, though 95.6538 percent of my fan fic is in ENT.

[CoffeeCat]

I personally don't want to see more added to the *real* trek timeline. I like the new one more.

My reasons:

I'm pretty much done with that. I'm done listening to the bickering because you know that no matter who tries anything, they're going to do something horribly wrong. And I think even if a "Canon Expert" were hired some other "Canon Expert" would find something to bicker about and go all over TrekBBS yelling "Canon Rape!!!" no matter what it is. I think this is what pisses me off most about Trekkies. Why would any N00B want to step into that shit? And I'm sorry, the stories that are considered "glorious tributes" to Star Trek (see phase two fan films, and OGAM) royally suck ass and are boring as hell to watch.

I think Trekkies have established that no one but Ron Moore is good enough to dabble in their precious canon. But, my god, let the poor man get on with his life.

Also,
For those sentimentally attached to Trek (I speak to myself here) - the time line wasn't erased - you can still pop it in the DVD player and enjoy it for what it is.

[Linda]

Canon rape? Well, most of the arguments about canon tire me out. Although I want to see where the AU started by the new movie eventually goes, I do prefer the (gulp) RU. I feel short changed that ENT was aborted in the fourth season because I would love to see that crew see the Federation into existance and some of its very early growing pains. I am still hoping that they do an ENT movie or mini series to bring that into canon - before the actors get too old to do it. It is probably a hopeless cause, but still...

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Well, I'm one of those "annoying" canonatics. Even though there are shows and concepts I'm not that keen on I appreciate the vastness of the Trekverse, the sense that, minor contradictions and fanon aside, evrything forms a coherent whole.

I've written more about that in my review:

One of Star Trek's greatest strengths is its universe, the fact that it spans vast amounts of time and space. It's world-building in a classical sense, and it has, for better and worse, been building for over 40 years. There are details and a shared history coming together to form a mostly coherent whole that in itself is enough to create a sense of wonder.

[CX]

I have a deep sentimental attachment to the Trek history built up by TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and the first, what is it?, ten or eleven movies - even with all its contradictions and alternate universes and stuff some of us reject like Trip's death. It is a very large canon. But if the AU shown in the new movie is attracting a whole new set of Star Trek fans, I say GREAT! It keeps the franchise alive.

No one has ever really been able to explain to me how making a new version in any way keeps the franchise alive. No offense, but that doesn't make any sense to me. Just making a good movie or series that adds to the "prime" universe would do that, but rebooting it, not so much, beyond keeping the name alive.

And they do still have to learn something of "old" or if you prefer "traditional" Trek to be able to rebel against it, ha, ha.

Not really, ignorance is al one needs to frak things up beyond all recognition.

And from what people are saying, liking the new movie is making new fans dig into traditional Trek?

Not what I've heard, but whatever.

Hey, there are fans who only accept certain of the old series saying things like "TOS is the only true Trek" or "I like TNG and DS9 but VOY and ENT are not Trek". So rejecting parts of Trek is nothing new.

This movie rejects the entire franchise, save the names. That's not a good thing. Nor is it good that it has had such a divisive affect on the fandom, which has been further fractured now.

And I think even if a "Canon Expert" were hired some other "Canon Expert" would find something to bicker about and go all over TrekBBS yelling "Canon Rape!!!" no matter what it is. I think this is what pisses me off most about Trekkies. Why would any N00B want to step into that shit?

I'd do it.

I think Trekkies have established that no one but Ron Moore is good enough to dabble in their precious canon. But, my god, let the poor man get on with his life.

I'd prefer Ira Steven Behr, personally, along with the other talent from DS9.

Also,
For those sentimentally attached to Trek (I speak to myself here) - the time line wasn't erased - you can still pop it in the DVD player and enjoy it for what it is.

It's not erased, just invalidated because nothing new will be added to it, and that's the main reason people are upset. Yes, we can certainly watch our old favorites anytime we want, but after a while you memorize it line for line and you have nothing new to watch. That pisses me off.

[WarpGirl]

I'd rather have "nothing new" then another ENT. I swear if I didn't like Trip and CT NOTHING could make me stick to it. So I'll not judge what's different just yet. HOWEVER if I do think it's bad, be prepared for me to GO OFF big time. With my entire sicilian/irish/french temper, in other words, I will make a Klingon tremble. Take that Duras sisters.

[CoffeeCat]

And I think even if a "Canon Expert" were hired some other "Canon Expert" would find something to bicker about and go all over TrekBBS yelling "Canon Rape!!!" no matter what it is. I think this is what pisses me off most about Trekkies. Why would any N00B want to step into that shit?

I'd do it.

Out of curiosity, what exactly does doing that accomplish?


Asso, It's nice to be posting again - but it's not a permanent thing. I just picked up a third job this summer and it involves me having to brush up on my PHP and Flash skills.

[CX]

Out of curiosity, what exactly does doing that accomplish?

If they hired one person or more to handle the continuity stuff, they'd have a lot less problems, because then there would be people who specifically keep track of it. Other than that, I'm afraid I don't understand the question, since the original question was posed about who would want a job like that, considering that the nerds would probably still bitch about it. I'd do it because I think I'd be good at it, and frankly the nerds bitching at me for screwing something up wouldn't exactly be much different from the kind of arguments I already get into. As a bonus I'd presumably be paid for it.

[CoffeeCat]

Ah - OK. You did misunderstand the original question.

To clarify I meant, Why would a N00b want to step into a fandom where all the fans were acting like beasts screaming about canon rape and half of them don't even know what they're talking about?

You thought I was asking, who would want a Job as a "Canon Expert"?

I get it. I'd do that job also - it actually sounds like a blast

[thecursor]

Yeah, that's not a job I want. One false move and suddenly you've got pitchforks and torches outside your window.

[JadziaKathryn]

This movie rejects the entire franchise, save the names. That's not a good thing. Nor is it good that it has had such a divisive affect on the fandom, which has been further fractured now.

I, too, felt that the tone of the movie didn't feel like Trek. That was the biggest drawback for me.

I agree that this film further fractures the fandom, yeah, but it's hardly fair to blame the movie for that. Let's face it - everything fractures Trek fandom.

To wit:
1. Enterprise: some people were virulently against a "prequel" show to begin with.
2. 'Ships: this could have about a thousand subdivisions, but you have big divides: A/T'P (the heresy! ) vs. TnT, which gets into disagreements over the artistic merit of "Twilight"; the Worf/Dax vs. Dax/Bashir schism for DS9 is another big one, and that's not even getting into slash 'ships which is a whole other kettle of fish
3. Characters: there are Archer-haters and Archer-lovers, Janeway fans and Janeway bashers, and so on
4. Canonicity: If Roddenberry himself wanted to pretend ST V was never made (and who could blame him?), is it okay to
disregard that? Or must we now say, well, Vulcan has princesses, Spock has a crazy half-brother, etc?
5. Episodes: Often intersecting with above-mentioned reasons, but not always. Some people will automatically dislike "Reset!Button" episodes. I'm on record as having zero interest in "In A Mirror Darkly" since it has nothing to do with 'our' universe at all. Other people like them as 'what-could-have-beens' and such. Sometimes political and social issues could come up, too.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong. What I am saying is that if you were to not make any Trek that would be divisive, you'd never make any Trek at all.

[WarpGirl]

Star Wars people are SO much more vicious to each other though. They make EVERYTHING a personal attack. I think that's just the nature of something so HUGE, with so many people with fingers in the pie creatively and financially. Because at the end of the day it's really about money, and money is power. Personally, I say live and let live just don't call me a moron if we disagree.

[CX]

To clarify I meant, Why would a N00b want to step into a fandom where all the fans were acting like beasts screaming about canon rape and half of them don't even know what they're talking about?

Well, since the fandom has been like that for a while and probably always will be, it's really a non-issue. Any new fans are going to be the friend of someone who's already a fan, or someone who develops an interest on their own. They probably aren't going to be online much anyway, and if they are they're just as likely to meet all the other kinds of flame warriors anyway. In short I don't care much and since this movie only makes things worse, I don't see how one can expect any improvement in the fandom.

Yeah, that's not a job I want. One false move and suddenly you've got pitchforks and torches outside your window.

Bring it.

I agree that this film further fractures the fandom, yeah, but it's hardly fair to blame the movie for that. Let's face it - everything fractures Trek fandom.
<snipped>
Again, I'm not saying you're wrong. What I am saying is that if you were to not make any Trek that would be divisive, you'd never make any Trek at all.

Be that as it may, it's still not at the same level as the new movie. Now we have a split between the old franchise and the new one, and a rather nasty one at that. All those 'shipper arguments I got into trouble for on TrekBBS have nothing on the vitriol used in quite a few STXI discussions I've seen. Even people who worked on the show for years aren't imune, since Doug Drexler and some of his fans came under attack because he had the gall to laugh about how poorly designed the Abramsprise's shuttlebay was.

Star Wars people are SO much more vicious to each other though. They make EVERYTHING a personal attack.

Heh, and this is why you should stay away from StarDestroyer.Net. It makes TrekBBS seem like happy fun playtime.

[thecursor]

I would, once again, like to point out that this conversation....

Y'know what? Never mind.