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Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:22 pm
by Asso
From Italian Wikipedia:
The planet Vulcan was colonized roughly 500,000 B.C. by settlers coming from Sargon.
I didn't find this on English Wikipedia.
I admit my ignorance.
Does that be true?
Because, in this case, a very great deal of things would be wrong in the canon. :?

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:42 pm
by Kevin Thomas Riley
I don't know where they got that info from. But Sargon wasn't a world, it was a disembodied being (see entry at Memory Alpha) from the TOS episode Return to Tomorrow. The 500,000 years things seems to come from when Sargon and a few others survived a war.

But it does say that Sargon had hoped "that the descendants of the colonies that his race had sown throughout the galaxy would one day venture into space". But it's not clear if Humans or Vulcans are the products of this seeding. Spock theorized about it:

Another possibility came to light in 2268 with the discovery of Sargon and his people. When Sargon explained that his people colonized many worlds in the galaxy six million [that's an error, it should read 600,000] years ago, Spock theorized that Vulcan might have been such a colony world. According to Spock "that would tend to explain certain elements of Vulcan prehistory". (TOS: "Return to Tomorrow")

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:04 am
by evcake
The idea of an ancient race seeding the galaxy with humanoid life is one I've read before. Didn't Usula LeGuin call hers the Hain? It's been a while...

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:38 pm
by blacknblue
There is also the Preservers, which Star Trek trots out whenever they feel like pulling a Human based culture out of there butts for an episode. The Preservers supposedly make a habit of plucking groups of endangered cultures and species off their native worlds and dropping them hither and yon around the galaxy with gay abandon, for no particular reason.

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:06 am
by evcake
Well, if you are going to have all these humanoids all over the place with virtually no differences except forhead bumps...

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:00 am
by JadziaKathryn
Then there was that dumb TNG episode where the great secret of the universe was that all races sprung from some other alien race. Not that anyone cared, since they resumed killing each other, or at least trying, with rapidity.

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:07 am
by CX
I thought that was a good episode personally, and I rather enjoyed the exchange between the Romulan commander and Picard at the end of it, short and subtle though it was.

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:42 pm
by Asso
Well!
Anyway I find very fascinating the idea that Vulcans couldn't be native of Vulcan.
Probably that could cause a lot of inconsistencies regarding their evolution (difficult to think they could have developed a third eyelid, in this case).
But surely, if Humans too were coming from a common ancestor, their resemblance with Vulcans may be well explained.
Rather, this resemblance is so noteworthy, that one might believe the two races got separated not too much long ago.

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:15 pm
by justTripn
500,000 years is enough time to evolve a third eyelid, don't you think, Black n' Blue?

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:32 pm
by Asso
justTripn wrote:500,000 years is enough time to evolve a third eyelid, don't you think, Black n' Blue?

Honestly, I think it isn't enough. It's a fluttering an eyelash, on the sequence of the biological evolution.

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:14 pm
by Alelou
Asso wrote:
justTripn wrote:500,000 years is enough time to evolve a third eyelid, don't you think, Black n' Blue?

Honestly, I think it isn't enough. It's a fluttering an eyelash, on the sequence of the biological evolution.


I thought that changes that give their posessors a distinct advantage in surviving to the point of having offspring that survive can spread throughout a population fairly quickly.

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:25 pm
by evcake
Third eyelid?

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:31 pm
by Asso
My impression is that "Vulcan Time" is slower than "Human Time".
And besides...
How long did camelopards with long neck have to live before they became predominant (and unique)?
Alelou wrote: I thought that changes that give their posessors a distinct advantage in surviving to the point of having offspring that survive can spread throughout a population fairly quickly.

This is a right idea, but probably (judging from some evidences), not exactly true.

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:30 pm
by Alelou
Hmm. Last time I read about this it was called punctuational equilibrium, as proposed by the now-deceased Stephen Jay Gould, but that's an old theory now and I'm not sure everyone agreed with it then. But the guy definitely did point to fossil evidence.

Re: Doesn't Vulcan be the native planet of the Vulcans?

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:43 pm
by Asso
Anyway the point is: if Vulcans came to their planet 5000,000 years ago, they should have noticed the discontinuity in their history.
Besides, paradoxically, Humans would be older than them.