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Awww you're sweet, Aquarius.

I totally get why people hate the idea - because I didn't like it either when I first read about it. But as you know - I took the concept and ran. . .and had some serious fun.

For those of you who have an open enough mind and don't mind decon fics:

Family Secrets


It is NC-17 for lots of sex and violence. The Romulans lend themselves to that.

*end of shameless self-promotion*

honeybee wrote:Lame is in the eye of the beholder. All depends on what you do with the idea.

I add: If you just use it to "explain", why T'Pol is far more emotional than the so called "normal" Vulcan.

Because I like Family Secrets, since you really show effects of this connection in your plot: her brothers for example.

I myself have an idea, which centers around the theme of T'Pol's father and the Romulan connection, but it sure isn't something like the "family version of T'Pol's Pa'Nar syndrome": It is shown only once in the series because of the show effect and later gets disposed in another one without adding anything to the actual plot of the series or to the character of T'Pol.

I have to admit, I'm slightly scared but as I'm going away until monday I think I'm safe...

OK without giving to much of my story away I'll say my views on this are complicated. Let me start with the daddy's girl question, do I think T'Pol is a daddy's girl? Yes, in a way I think she is. However, I'm not sure she was a daddy's girl while he was alive. You see how old she was when he died would shape her outlook of him. I don't think there is any canonical information about when he died (correct me if I'm wrong) but in my imagination it was in pre-adolencence. Roughly the human equivilant of 8-10. Young enough for the "rose colored glasses" to be in full effect, but about the time when they start shattering.

A lot of people like the idea that T'Pol's father was more sympathetic to her emotions being close to the surface, and while I have no objections to the idea, for me its just too easy to use it as an explanation for the conflict with T'Les. I prefer more layered reasons. If T'Pol was child when her father died, than we really wouldn't know how he would view her struggles as an adult. Vulcan children aren't born with perfect control, so both T'Les and her husband would have had to have been very tolorent of their daughter. I do have the sense that T'Les might have let T'Pol know she was more concerned about how much she had to srtuggle then her father did. But that doesn't automatically mean he didn't worry himself.

Personally, I always thought T'Les and T'Pol were very much alike. Not that T'Pol would have taken the same actions as her mother. But I saw a lot of fundemental characteristics that were the same. That probably caused conflict, because most parents find it hard to accept their child's qirks, especially if those quirks are traits they do not like about themselves. Indeed, that can cause more conflicts than a child who is radically different from the parent.

I think when dad died, T'Les was hurt badly by the broken bond. It's possible that after that she could not relate to T'Pol anymore simply because her bonding abilities were impaired. I kind of have the idea she went for Kolinahr to save her own sanity and lost some of the connection to T'Pol that T'Pol desperately needed. With all of that I'm sure T'Pol must have felt doubly abandoned and started clinging to her father's memory and becoming a "daddy's girl" believing that, "Father would have treated me differently".

As to who Dad is... Well, in my head he's Soval's son. And he worked for the Ministry of Security, because I can't figure out why T'Pol would have chosen to get into the profession, when as a girl she idolized V'Lar, and is drawn to exploration, science, and curiosity. All of which I think must come from BOTH of her parents. After all, T'Mir is T'Les' grandmother, not dad's. However I don't think dad chased down fugitives like T'Pol. But I'm not telling what I think he did you'll all have to read the fic to find out.

As to how he died... The VHC, and the Rommies that's all I'll say. Want details, read the story. Not that that part is written yet.

What kind of man was he? Unselfish, loving family man all of his family, loyal to a superlative degree, kind of a Vulcan's man's man, well educated, not given to a strictly black and white outlook on things, a definite follower of Surak's true teachings. Very much a "needs of the many" guy. I think he's the type to abhore corruption, anything unjust, or immoral. Slow to any use of force, yet more than capable of carrying it out if there is no other option. Very willing to fight for and die for doing the right thing.

As for the Rommie thing... I don't like it for two reasons 1. We've already had one in Saavik. I ADORE Saavik, but one of the things that got me really excited about ENT (in the begining) was a fully Vulcan female lead. It had never been done, I didn't want to see that screwed up. 2. Too many explanations (excuses) as to why T'Pol is so "different" she had the Pa'nar, she did TD, oops she did all those things because she's half Rommie... Please enough already. Can't we just put it down to Vulcans are individuals, not Borg? To me its a massive case of overkill, I just don't see the need.

Can't we just put it down to Vulcans are individuals, not Borg?

True, but, God, I have to admit last night I got the terrible idea that if anyone in T'Pol's family is likely to be a Romulan, it's T'Les....

I have absolutely no cannonical backing for this, except it seemed like a great idea at like one in the morning. I can just see it: T'Les, the young Rolmulan spy sent to Vulcan, becomes disenchanted with the Romulan precept of unlimited expansion, and tries to become the ultimate Vulcan. Super in control, super strict about the traditional inturpetation of Surak - which attracks her to the Syrannites in the first place, and all in all the very intrangent woman we see in "Home" when it comes to having her daughter be the perfect little Vulcan too... I can see it now, the new High Command sending people back into the forge to retreive the bodies of the dead Syrannites and having to identify the corpses by DNA. But they run DNA comparasions with against the DNA in the database for the Mising Presumed Dead Syrannites and find they have a body whose DNA doesn't match anything in the database, not quite anyway... narrowing it down, they realize that the only body they're missing is T'Les's... and eventually they come to the conclusion she was a Romulan agent who took over the original T'Les's idenity. Sure, it would mean T'Mir wasn't really T'Pol's great-grandmother, but, like I said, it struck me as brilliant at 01:00. If anyone wants to develop this into a fic... god, that would be great....

Now that would be a guilty pleasure late night flight of fancy I could get into with a glass of wine and some chocolate. However, I am not the one to write it.

I have to admit the idea of dad being Rommie also doesn't sit well with me as presented because he faked his death, betrayed his family, (and T'Les really loved him) and all sorts of nastiness. Hasn't T'Pol gone through enough crap already? Pick on somebody else for a change.

T'Les as Romulan spy... very interesting idea.

Like I said, it was like one in the morning... its amazing what your brain can come up with on the edge of sleep. Just think of all the options. T'Les could have killed her husband if he found out (if she's still an active spy, or was at the time) and felt such remorse that she gave up her evil spying ways, or the Romulans could have killed T'Pol's father when they couldn't reach T'Les (if she deserted them)...


Or maybe they were both spies and T'Pol's father went to give a report to his spymaster (because spy!T'Les and spy!T'pol'sFather would have taken turns doing this) but found that the regime had been rather forcibly changed and was killed, causing T'Les to be stranded on Vulcan and having to blend in... or maybe join the Syrannites to carry out her mission in the only way available to her! After all, if Vulcan's are bethrothed very young, you'd either have to pass your spy off as someone else and hope no one notices - and get your spy to Vulcan young, before s/he weds, after which it might be a wee bit harder to pull of your switcheroo, but with the added problem of your young and impressionable spy being, well, young and impressionable - or send in pairs, to pass off as a normal Vulcan couple, which may be an easier charade...

Yes, I realize this is absoutly crazy, but I just got back from seeing Eclipse for some god-unknown reason, and so my brain is stuck in stupid mode...

Hey, how about Koss being a Romulan spy too. T'Les wants T'Pol to marry him so he would have a deeper cover and join a powerful clan. Perhaps his Parents are Romulans who have been surgicaly altered and Koss is a full Romulan without the bumpy forehead.

Sure, why not? Let's make the entire High Command Romulan spies while we're at it - with the exception of that one minister with the phase pistol at the end of "Kir'shara" - and the priest who married Koss and T'Pol too, because only an absolute evil man (like we know all Romulans to be) would ever do a thing like that...

aadarshinah wrote:Yes, I realize this is absoutly crazy, but I just got back from seeing Eclipse for some god-unknown reason, and so my brain is stuck in stupid mode...

I would really like your thoughts on the movie. If you don't mind, could you post your opinion here. I actually liked the first three books but pretend the last one doesn't exist (much like *the_abomination*). And the first two movies I didn't think did the books justice, however the third movie does seem like they may not have screwed up the mood of the book and I might be willing to go see it. But not before I have a few opinions gathered first. Although from the tone of your sentence, it doesn't sound good.

aadarshinah wrote:Or maybe they were both spies and T'Pol's father went to give a report to his spymaster...

How very Julius and Ethel Rosenberg...

You sure you haven't seen too much news of Russian spy rings lately?

How very Julius and Ethel Rosenberg...

Not a thought about russian spies since I read The Bell Jar, oh, four years ago. I promise. *holds up two fingers* Scout's honour.

Well, it does make T'Les and Hubby sound a bit like the "Murphys" who were just arrested...

After reading some of their email debates with Moscow about just who would own the house, I couldn't help wondering how many foreclosure-suffering Americans were thinking, "Hey, that's a pretty cool gig. Could I get a job like that?"

Here's one of my many theories about T'Pol's father:

T'Pol's dad and Koss's dad are old friends who have worked together for years. Koss's family are an old, aristocratic Vulcan family, while T'Pol's family has rapidly risen from obscurity to prominence through her father's brilliant scientific achievements. They decide to arrange a marriage between T'Pol and Koss. A few years pass and somebody starts an investigation into T'Pol's father. It seems that he isn't quite what he seems. Koss's dad is questioned and a short time later, T'Pol's father is dead (or is he really?) T'Pol and T'Les can't get any answers from the VHC, and Koss's father says he can't violate his security oath by telling them anything. T'Pol blames Koss's father for her father's death and doesn't want anything to do with their family. Koss's father knows something shocking about T'Pol's family and doesn't want his son married to to T'Pol, but the marriage has already been arranged, and he's stuck. T'Les will make a huge stink if he tries to call it off, and Koss, despite having only seen her a couple of times, is intent on marrying T'Pol.

The shocking secret Koss's father knows is that T'Pol's parents are actually both Romulans. However, they aren't spies. They are sort of the opposite of the Vulcan's V'tosh katur (spelling?). They are Romulans who seek logic. They made their way to Vulcan and have lived disguised as good, normal Vulcans for many years, and they never had any intention of telling their daughter the truth about her heritage. Somehow the VHC figures out about T'Pol's father, but not her mother. Koss's dad was actually carrying out his good friend's wishes when he answered the VHC's questions, and they are both protecting T'Les and T'Pol.

Time passes. T'Les desperately wants her daughter to get married to a nice Vulcan boy and stop standing out so much. As a historian and as someone who grew up on Romulus, she possesses knowledge that makes her believe the Syrannites are right. She joins them, hoping to help cause some sort of cultural revolution that will shake up the VHC and keep her daughter safe. The one thing she doesn't consider doing is actually telling T'Pol the truth about her past.

If there had been a season five, we would find out T'Pol's father is not actually dead. (I don't know what he's doing, whether he's in prison, back on Romulus, whatever. I haven't figured that out yet.)

This theory would - I think - make T'Pol the first full Romulan main cast member. Wouldn't that shake things up?

While I am definitely in the T'Pol should not be a Romulan camp, I'm gonna beg for you to write that as a story! That's would be the wildest ride I've ever been on in ENT fic. And that's one of many theories????? Please tell more.