A Hoshi and T'Pol Friendship

[Alelou]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, a bit, and suggest that...

1) T'Pol is Hoshi's department head and her immediate boss (I assume, since Hoshi wears science stripes, not ops stripes). I just don't think you tend to relax around and befriend the senior officer you report to. Especially if you already notice tension between her and the other senior officers, especially the captain, who is the one person you already know, the man who recruited you into your post.

2) They depict A LOT of early tension between the two, not helped by T'Pol's lack of diplomacy and Hoshi's insecurity.

3) In Season 4 I think we got to see some potential for a T'Pol and Hoshi friendship, but I think those three senior officers were a pretty tight-knit little group and Hoshi just wasn't part of it. That's not even counting Trip and T'Pol. I think it made perfect sense that you occasionally saw Malcolm, Hoshi and Travis hanging out together in a more friendly, relaxed way.

4) It's too bad we lost Liz Cutler. I agree that there really weren't enough female characters of note on that show -- and they sure used her a lot, considering that she wasn't a major character. Clearly there was a need for a character like her. She would have been a better choice as a friend for Hoshi. I wish they had come up with another woman in a role like that.

[WarpGirl]

The actress who played Liz Cutler was killed in a car crash, but they had planned on making her a regular. Alelou the only flaw I have with your boss arguement was that it never has mattered before. Kirk, Riker, Janeway, Sisco, they all were everyone's direct boss, (and in Riker's case sometimes a lover) and they had close friendships with their subordinents. And Technically although not in actual title, T'Pol was EVERYONE'S boss because she was 2IC, (second in command) so I don't buy it.

I didn't really see TnT and Archer as especially close knit at least not in the way TNG and Kirk/Spock/McCoy were close knit. Even though that was the intention.

And the early tension of earlier seasons was hardly insurmountible..

[Alelou]

I thought the actress died of a heart problem?

[WarpGirl]

I might be mixed up.

[Distracted]

The sources I found said cardiac arrhythmia.

[WarpGirl]

Then another Trek guest or something died in a crash. Whoops sorry folks.

[honeybee]

Yes, it was very sad that Kellie Waymire passed away. Liz Culter could have been the Chief O'Brien of ENT, a reoccurring character that became important to the show. But KW was still alive during the filming of the second season, and they just didn't use her, which is a shame.

If you like the actress, I highly recommend the last thing (or one of the last at least) she filmed before she died - an episode of Wonderfalls about a Lonely Zookeeper. It never aired because the show was cancelled, but it is on the DVD and she's wonderful.

I actually think a Liz/T'Pol friendship would have been interesting because Liz was shown actively trying to befriend her - and they worked together in 2D2N to deal with Phlox's sleeping issues.

I like to see T'Pol and Hoshi interacting in fics, but I never buy that they are bffs. But I do think they respect and like each other - early tension aside.

I always try and portray T'Pol as awkward around but tolerant of girl talk.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

I've sometimes wondered if T'Pol did have any real friends before she came on board the Enterprise. She seemed a very lonely one, even for a Vulcan. Maybe it has to do with her emotional issues.

But it would have been interesting to see one of her former friends/acquaintances show up in an episode.

[WarpGirl]

I agree T'Pol had a lonely life. But so did Hoshi as we found out in Exile, and she seems to attract stiff reserved people as friends. Look at Malcolm.

[honeybee]

Since the majority of Trek writers were male, I think that female friendship was always a little awkward or stereotypical as shown, though it rarely was at all. I do remember some nice scenes between Dax and Kira on DS9, though. But if they were going to pursue a friendship between Hoshi & T'Pol, I would have liked it to be based on work - not girl talk or shopping.

But I do also agree that T'Pol had very few friends on or off the ship.

She and Phlox were friendly, being the only two aliens on the ship. But Denobulans were totally different from Vulcans, emotive and out-going. But their scenes always functioned well as exposition - showing their different perspectives. But Phlox was always the one reaching out to her.

T'Pol had a kind of friendship with Archer, but it was very much a work relationship.

From Season 1, Trip was the character she connected to on a personal level. I'd say that was true even in Broken Bow, when offscreen she helps him reconfigure the sensors. That may have been a professional situation, but her decision to do help him (and the rest of crew) was personal. And in my mind, it may have something to do with his talented fingers in decon, but only on a subconscious level.

[panyasan]

There is a nic fic from Hoshi point of view when Trip is leaving to Columbia and she experience some of T'Pols and Trip interactions in white space, don't know the name.
This thread is inspiring for a Hoshi/T'Pol fic, mmmmm....

"The Dream Catcher" by Opal
http://triptpolers.houseoftucker.com/fi ... cher.shtml

“Hoshi’s Affliction” by Kevin
http://triptpolers.houseoftucker.com/fi ... tion.shtml

I meant Hoshi's Affliction. I really like that fic. Never read The Dream Catcher, so I am going read that one very soon.

[panyasan]

I've sometimes wondered if T'Pol did have any real friends before she came on board the Enterprise. She seemed a very lonely one, even for a Vulcan. Maybe it has to do with her emotional issues.

But it would have been interesting to see one of her former friends/acquaintances show up in an episode.

She does mention in one episode (I think it was the episode with captain Vanik - the person who tells her to get away from her disgraceful state of being on Enterprise) her former friends. Maybe from her militairy days? I always think of Soval of being an old friend/father figure.

[Ludmila]

But it would have been interesting to see one of her former friends/acquaintances show up in an episode.

There was one T'Pol's ex-colleague in Vulcan arc. They was fighting in that scene

[WarpGirl]

Well a deep friendship only truly needs respect to develop, not really common interests. And I think T'Pol and Hoshi could have developed that respect. I always said those writers had very little clue as to how women relate to each other. Essentialy they were the only two women on the show, to have them not bond at all was totally unrealistic. Especially surrounded by all of those MEN!

[panyasan]

Well a deep friendship only truly needs respect to develop, not really common interests. And I think T'Pol and Hoshi could have developed that respect. I always said those writers had very little clue as to how women relate to each other. Essentialy they were the only two women on the show, to have them not bond at all was totally unrealistic. Especially surrounded by all of those MEN!

Maybe my bad experience with women on the workfloor comes into place, but I can understand if Hoshi and T'Pol didn't became friends. Sometimes women just don't get along.
On the other hand, they have a lot in common and willing to develop some kind of friendship, at least in the first season. So I am leaning more towards that would be logical for them to form a sort of friendship. The fact remains there is none showing in the show. Confused? Me too.