Happy endings? Sad endings?

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, I had a problem with that because if T-Pol had been thinking logically not emotionally she would have known something was up. the Letter from Koss waiting for her should have tipped her off that Mom was in cahoots with Koss. Mom ws the only one who knew that T-Pol was coming back to Vulcan so Mom hd to be the one who told Koss. Also, in the episode it was so obvious that Mom was lying in her teeth. That is why I didn't agree with Home.

[WarpGirl]

Yeah well as soon as I find a way to actually see it, I will confirm that hypothesis myself. Until then all I know is that canonically T'Les didn't lie, and TnT did the right thing, just like in Casablanca. As far as it goes in canon you should like the realism presented of doing the right thing.

[panyasan]

I agree with what has been said. The ending depends on the story. Sometimes a bad ending is just more realistic and fitting: I can imagine a story where the end is that TnT split up as ending, because it makes more sense. I mostly like bittersweet ending: the characters are changed by the events, the sadness is still there, but they also remember the good things. Asso's last (E2) story is a good example: Trip dies - but his death is not meaningless and the underlying theme is the love between Trip and T'Pol. (For some reasons I like a good death scene). Another "good" and in a way sad ending is the end of DS9 - everybody leaves and that hurts, but it's right in some way. I like ending when people do the right thing - even when it doesn't mean happy live for themselves.
I also like ending that still leaves room for imagination - you can make up your own story what is going to happen. In that way, I like the ending of Terra Prime. It leaves with sadness and a hopefull note and you can make your own story what happens next.

[WarpGirl]

And that is why you are brilliant! Hey did you get any rest?

[panyasan]

And that is why you are brilliant! Hey did you get any rest?

No, I finally slept at three o'clock and woke myself up coughing at four. Fell asleep again, but then the kids woke me up at 5.45 am. Only a couple of hours of sleep. But I managed at my work, it was very busy so I hadn't time to feel sleepy and got to bed early last night.

[WarpGirl]

I know how that goes, getting no sleep. But you take care of yourself.

[Escriba]

I think I'm with Alelou on the opinion that an ending must be satisfying. It doesn't matter if it's sad or happy. As others here have pointed out, that depends a lot of what you thinks it's sad: the main character dying or not being with his loved one could be not so sad if there is a noble sacrifice involved.

By the way, finally I've found the page where I learned the difference between "angst" (which is, usually, not good) and "pathos" (which is good writing.) "Angst" means "anxiety, or a feeling of guilt and remorse," with the connotation that it exceeds what the situation deserves. "Pathos" means simply "suffering, loss, grief, or passion." I like this difference, which is useful to acknowledge that some stories have sad or dramatic storylines, but this doesn't mean they're immature, gratuitous or bad.

[justTripn]

Thanks Escriba, I might be using those words incorrectly.

And thanks Honeybee for this:

I absolutely hate the filmmaker Lars Von Trier because he always creates likable characters and then tortures them for the rest of the film - and then says "look how deep I am". That was my problem with the BSG reboot. It started to feel like bad fanfic by the end to me, as nothing happy ever happened and most of the characters turned awful.

That is exactly what I felt about BSG. I would joke with BSG fans that I could always see the ending coming (of each episode). Whichever possible outcome was the most horrible would be the ending. Another thing I hate is on some police shows, for instance NYPD Blue after the first few seasons, the police would come across some sick perverted crime, usually involving a lot of nakedness, and all shake their heads at the state of the world. And I would be shouting at the TV: "Don't be shocked! You wrote it!" I have a hard time suspending disbelief in these situations.

[WarpGirl]

JT Isn't House in the same catagory? I can't stand it because House (the guy) is just so rediculously... I don't even have a word for it. I'm always thinking, "OK you're leg is messed up, yeah you're in pain, got it. I know how it feels. But for God's sake get over yourself!" His wallowing makes me crazy, he doesn't deserve it.

[Silverbullet]

I have been through this before. Angst is a German word meaning "Fear" But most Fanfic and other writers choose to use the Americanization of the word which has a different meaning.

Personaly, I like an ending that satisfies. If main character dies it must have meaning. If a pair split up forever there had to be a valid reason grounded in logic. Too often the death or split is just tossed in for no other reason than the writer wants to get a little Bathos in.

Trip's Death in *the_abomination* was meaningless. Trip's death in ASSO's story meant the saving of the ship, crew, T-Pol and his son. Much different.

[WarpGirl]

You do know that languages evolve and words can and do recieve differents meanings thoughout time? Connotations change, usages change, words die out, languages die out. Languages are almost alive, and in a constant state of flux. How a word is used can be dependent on the context and situation it is used in.

[panyasan]

By the way, finally I've found the page where I learned the difference between "angst" (which is, usually, not good) and "pathos" (which is good writing.) "Angst" means "anxiety, or a feeling of guilt and remorse," with the connotation that it exceeds what the situation deserves. "Pathos" means simply "suffering, loss, grief, or passion." I like this difference, which is useful to acknowledge that some stories have sad or dramatic storylines, but this doesn't mean they're immature, gratuitous or bad.

Funny, I think my perception of Angst is maybe influenced by my own language. Angst is also a Dutch word. (It's such a wonderful language .) In Dutch angst can be a very negative word, it's anxiety, but also with lots of fear, like anxiety fulled with fear. Hopeless. Sometimes a horrible feeling of horror. It doesn't impy feelings of guilt or remorse. Pathos in Dutch means some one is exaggerating, making a drama out of something and also a passive word (like in Greek, pathos in Greek means something like undergoing bad things).

[WarpGirl]

Well that's the thing about languages, each is individual and again very alive.

[panyasan]

Well that's the thing about languages, each is individual and again very alive.

I actually have to restrain my self or I would go on and on about the wonderful meaning of this and that word. I even made a Greek sentence with the word pathos after a joke my husband and I always make (we both studied some old Greek - we vaguely remember some words, any way, it's a very logical language. T'Pol would love it.)

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, Angst is a Germanic word. As in Dutch it feans fear and Horror. Guilt and remorse doesn't enter in to it.

Americans adopt foreign words and prases but often give them a meaning not inteneded in the native language. A good Example is "Fraulein" which in German means Miss or a young girl. The american GI turned it in to a word meaning a less desirable type of female. The German females now hate to be Called Fraulein because of the conocation the GI's put on it.