Archer - Dweeb or Hero?

[Asso]

Now I feel like an old man!

YOU FEEL LIKE AN OLD MAN?!?!? I...I...I...

[panyasan]

Now I feel like an old man!

YOU FEEL LIKE AN OLD MAN?!?!? I...I...I...

Well, if some one is young at heart, it's you, Asso.

[Asso]

Sorry. I can't reply. I have to cease to smile so foolishly.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Now I feel like an old man!

YOU FEEL LIKE AN OLD MAN?!?!? I...I...I...

Compared to some of the young'uns here, yes indeed!

[WarpGirl]

While watching Augment Arc I now finally understand why people refer to season 4 Archer as "super Archer" and it's even worse then sissy Archer because he's not letting the crew do their jobs! Malcolm should have been kicking behind, that's his job. Jeeze this is irritating.

[Linda]

Hey at 61, I must be about the oldest fan on this site. But I can still beat my 17 year old granddaughter running down the street to the ice cream vendor....three out of ten times.

Captains I like in order of my liking: Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Kirk, Archer. Despite some episodes where I thought Janeway not acting like I would want her to, it was Star Trek finally having a series featuring a female captain that drew me seriously into Star Trek fandom.

[WarpGirl]

Linda my grandmother can do that to my 24 year old sister and she's 75! Not me I'm in a wheelchair I never win,, but I eat the most. I really loved Janeway, yeah she made mistakes but with all of the pressure she was under it made sense. Even the stupid holo-bartender made sense it was just WRONG! Archer forgot the had a CREW behind him, and he rarely used them. It's insufferable.

[WarpGirl]

Hey sorry for the double post. As many people may know there was a "Trekathon" on sci-fi channel last thursday and friday. I watched most of it, (no way I get out of bed before 9:00) and I've got to say it solidified my absolute HATRED and CONTEMPT for Captain Jonathan Archer. Although I really loved some of the preformances from the cast in general, (especially Trip!) OMG "Cogenator" got me so mad I scared my pets with my screaming. When Trip tells Archer that he only did what Archer himself would do and that JERK denied it I completely FREAKED! It was EXACTLY what Archer would have done if he had felt that it was wrong. And then to tell Trip that he not only in effect murdered the Cogenator but also a child who hadn't even been concieved was not being a good Captain or a good friend. However, CT's acting was top-notch! As good as Brent Spinner doing DATA. And to me Brent Spinner was the best Trek actor after Lenord Nimoy.

The final nail in my coffin for Archer was the episode "Damage" Where does he get off becoming a pirate stealing an INNOCENT non-threatening species warp coil? HELLO! This is not an act of heroism. And to make matters worse, T'Pol is the only one who says anything and they make her appologize and take it back!!! My God Kirk would have found some bad guys to steal from. Finally he decides to send a comatose Hoshi on a mission when she was captured, tortured, and infected with Xindi parasites, knowing full well it will likely kill her. OK fine but to make Phlox stay on Enterprise is not only cruel but stupid. I'm surprised they paid the writers for such garbage. Anyway nobody will EVER convince me that Archer is a "good guy!"

[anaM]

I completely agree with you about Cogenitor but not so much about the Xindi episodes. Archer did some condemnable things there, but he had to. He could not wait for bad guys to appear and he had to use Hoshi, even if she was going to die. He had Earth to save and I understand him. What would have been nice to see at the end of S3 would be a episode about his guilt and remorse and how he copes with them instead of two eps with space nazis. Then he would be more likeable.

[WarpGirl]

Sorry he's a war criminal! "The end always justifies the means," is archaic. He could have found a way. There is nothing redeemable about what he did.

[Alelou]

I completely agree with you about Cogenitor but not so much about the Xindi episodes. Archer did some condemnable things there, but he had to. He could not wait for bad guys to appear and he had to use Hoshi, even if she was going to die. He had Earth to save and I understand him. What would have been nice to see at the end of S3 would be a episode about his guilt and remorse and how he copes with them instead of two eps with space nazis. Then he would be more likeable.

That's what Archer's plot line in "Home" is about and I thought they did a fairly creditable job of it, though I think we should have seen a much longer process over multiple episodes for him to really come to terms with what he'd done. And yes, it was wrong, and he knew it -- they all knew it -- but he would have done it again, and Earth still existed because he did. It sure as hell wasn't pretty, but war isn't pretty.

[WarpGirl]

But there were other ways. That's what kills me about his actions. Do I think he needed to save Earth? YES! Of course I do. Do I think he had to resort to murdering clones and piracy? No way.

[Asso]

No, Alelou, you never will convince me that war is war.
If you cede to this thought, little by little you will begin to believe that all can be justified, that "The end justifies the means".
And you have to think that it was an Italian, who said this.
Machiavelli: il fine giustifica i mezzi.
He was wrong.

[anaM]

You are sure that your compatriot was wrong Asso? War is bad because it makes you do bad things. If it was polite and clean and you played by the rules it would be an athletic game. I don't believe that ever in history a war was won nicely.
And calling Archer a pirate yes, but a war criminal? In reality he saved Earth avoiding a war. (Well, I never thought I would try to justify Archer )

[Asso]

AnaM, it's because people believe Machiavelli has some reasons (obviously even without knowing him) that wars exist.
We have to fight against this.
And do you want to know what I think? The simple fact that Authors made Archer act the way he had to act... this fact makes me extremely suspicious about their intentions.