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Austen herself took the risk of being a spinster. She did turn down that one marriage proposal she got. Better to live alone happy than unhappy (and annoyed) with a man, she maybe have thought.

And she turned it down the morning after she'd accepted it the night before. What an awful night that must have been.

Poor Jane. She was wildly in love with a young man at one point in her youth, but it wasn't considered a good match for him and that was the end of it.

Lucky us, though. We might never have gotten her books if she'd had marriage and family. I'm glad she at least got to see her books published and attaining some popularity while she was still alive, which wasn't very long -- I think she died at 41.

Panysann, as did Emily Dickenson, my favorite poet. She lived the life of a recluse. But her poetry wandered the world. Of course, I am such a romantic that I also love the Rubyiat by Khyam.

Not to oversimplify Austen, but I always thought that the fact that her own happy ending had been denied to her (at least from a romantic perspective) informs her work while at the same time she's imagining a world where a happy ending would have been possible for her, without letting go of her cynicism about marriage and courtship.

I read four Austen biographies in a row for a graduate biography class - and the consensus was that she was happy being single - though she may have longed for that imagined Mr. Darcy, she was smart enough not to get married when she didn't find him.

I would agree that she had some very ambivalent feelings about pregnancy (a risky undertaking in those days), motherhood and marriage, and might have ultimately considered herself just as well out of it. But I also think she would have very happily said yes to young Tom Lefroy, and not changed her mind the next morning. (He, on the other hand, had a great deal to lose.)

Her heroines are always at that point in their lives when things can still turn out happily ever after in the sense of marrying one's true love, although by Persuasion Anne Eliot is 'past her bloom,' but in her own life I imagine she simply made the best of it. You might as well celebrate not being stuck in some awful marriage or dead in childbirth. It's either that or mope around.

I concure she made that point very well in Persuasion. Um how to we get back OT?

Silverbullet wrote:Panysann, as did Emily Dickenson, my favorite poet. She lived the life of a recluse. But her poetry wandered the world. Of course, I am such a romantic that I also love the Rubyiat by Khyam.

I always find Emily Dickinson fascinating. Why the white dresses, the flowers etc. I know, lots of people have giving explanations, but I like the sense of mystery. I never heard of Khyam. What kind of writer is he/she?

Rubyiat by Khyam is a VERY old book. Old Persian Poetry, author long since dead. Hey ever see "The Music Man" the book is mentioned a lot.

WarpGirl wrote:Aquarius do you like Jane Austin at all?

Can't say as I've ever been inclined to read her. Probably because of the lack of surprise.

Well different tastes are fine. But I have to say that I wouldn't objectively classify "surprise me" as a hard and fast actual rule to good writing.

WarpGirl wrote:Well different tastes are fine. But I have to say that I wouldn't objectively classify "surprise me" as a hard and fast actual rule to good writing.

Well, I can't see a very strong case for being predictable...

Sorry, but a good writer surprises a reader somehow...if not in the plot, then in the way language is used, or some other way. A non-surprising plot can be forgivable if it's told in a way that makes it special. If not, then it's just kind of the Same Old Crap, isn't it?

I can't make a value judgment on Austen because I haven't read her, but based on what I have gathered, there isn't anything there that makes me say to myself, "OMG, I have GOT to read that."

The reason I say it can't be an objective rule, is that what may be surprising to one person could be completely predictable to another. So while "surprise me" can be a great asperation for a writer in general, I'd say it is a subjective concept. Because your audience is made up of so many different people that it would be almost impossible to surprise them all.

I have read fic, books, seen movies, and listened to music that wasn't surprising in the least. But it was good simply because the persons supplying them did it well period.

To me the delight of Austen is not the plot -- though I mostly love those, too -- but her wry way of looking at people. Her dialogue is sparkling and her wit is a joy. And I don't think I've never seen anyone so good at capturing character in just a few polite exchanges.

Warpgirl, yes it is an Old book of Persian Poetry. but I am an old guy who happens to like Poetry but writers that many don't read. I love robert Service. He is the only writer that made me feel the Artic in his poems.

I love Omar Khayyám! Persian polymath. Mathematician, philosopher, astronomer and poet.