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As many of you are no doubt aware, Enterprise is rife with character SNAFUs and inconsistencies throughout its run. For example, Trip made a reference to his brother in Fusion (I believe), and a reference to a nephew in Breaking the Ice, but come season 3, was said to have only a single sibling (stated by Phlox). Archer's apparently father died twice and at different stages in his life (thank you, season 4). I shan't mention how T'Pol the Logical abruptly and for no reason seemed to turn into Sidekick!Polly during season 2 beyond this mention...

How do you deal with this? Do you (as a writer) accept the later canon (Phlox making the single sibling statement) or do you look back to the comments made by Mister Tucker himself? What about Archer's dad?

Color me interested in the various opinions...

It's an interesting question because going with SeveralSibling!Trip can provide circumstances for very interesting stories with T'Pol invovled... Big family barbeques, etc. I personally still really want to do a story like that some day, BUT, when I get to talking about epic-length or "suppose this is the way the show had continued" type scenarios, I think the single-sister sibling Trip seems to jive more with how he grieved for Elizabeth. That kind of psychological trauma doesn't quite seem to fit to someone with multiple siblings, at least none that they're remotely close to, and we never EVER heard anything about his other siblings mourning too or anything.

What's the thing about Archer's dad dying at different times in his life? When are the two times, and what are the two episodes that offer these contradictory periods?

The biggest sin of the Enterprise writing staff was the free-wheeling spirit of "writing characters as we go", like the elements of T'Pol's past we saw in The Seventh, which, to me, MAKE ZERO sense. They just wanted an excuse to give T'Pol an emotional past, I don't know if they were trying to build a case to support what they were going to do later with her emotionally (Season 3/4) or just to make her more human-like, but it was retarded. T'Pol comes across as someone who is in the Sciences because she's fascinated by differences - and THAT elicits the emotional reaction in her that bubbles below the surface - the fact that her scientific eye for diversity opens her up to enjoying things, and experiencing *the unknown* (Humanity, emotions) that other Vulcans spurn. I hate the idea that she's only testing the waters of emotion because she has some kind of violent past with the Vulcan Security Ministry

Elessar wrote:It's an interesting question because going with SeveralSibling!Trip can provide circumstances for very interesting stories with T'Pol invovled... Big family barbeques, etc. I personally still really want to do a story like that some day, BUT, when I get to talking about epic-length or "suppose this is the way the show had continued" type scenarios, I think the single-sister sibling Trip seems to jive more with how he grieved for Elizabeth. That kind of psychological trauma doesn't quite seem to fit to someone with multiple siblings, at least none that they're remotely close to, and we never EVER heard anything about his other siblings mourning too or anything.

I'm actually planning on addressing that in my next fic (providing I can get the Muse to cooperate) and have a (IMO) decent explanation for it. I figure that, if Trip totally blamed himself for Elizabeth's death, it explains why he shuts off like he did...

What's the thing about Archer's dad dying at different times in his life? When are the two times, and what are the two episodes that offer these contradictory periods?

In the Augment arc, Dr. Data/Lore/Whatever stated that Archer was about 12 or so when Henry Archer died of that syndrome, yet later, in Daedalus, Archer states how his dad gave him advice for flight school, which is not something a pre-teen goes through, so there is contradictory information right there. Not to mention, the way Archer acted in season 1, you'd think that the Vulcans were directly responsible for Henry Archer's death...

The biggest sin of the Enterprise writing staff was the free-wheeling spirit of "writing characters as we go", like the elements of T'Pol's past we saw in The Seventh, which, to me, MAKE ZERO sense. They just wanted an excuse to give T'Pol an emotional past,

I disagree in this specific, as the entire purpose of that craptastic episode was nothing more than tearing her down (again) so they could have Big!Strong!Super!Archer there to support her. It was ridiculous character assassination in the same vein as *the_abomination*, and convinced me that the Beebs had no idea how to write a main character without tearing everyone else down. Not to mention, they were still ... toying with that equally ridiculous AinT nonsense and, as we saw on the show, the only way that could happen is if they continued to tear T'Pol down until she was nothing more than a sidekick who gushed at how great and all knowing Captain!Airlock was.

I don't know if they were trying to build a case to support what they were going to do later with her emotionally (Season 3/4)

Please. Those morons couldn't plan that far ahead. They were trying to get me to quit watching the show (since ANIS didn't succeed). At the time, they accomplished their goal.

or just to make her more human-like, but it was retarded.

I totally agree that it was retarded in how they did it, but I actually thought the core concept (T'Pol had a background in Intelligence) was not a bad one. Unfortunately, they couldn't do such an episode without wandering off on their "Our Captain is the Bestest!" tripe and had to thoroughly frak up a previously interesting character (T'Pol) by suddenly turning her into a recovering basketcase. Imagine how much cooler it could have been if, in the course of the episode, she discovered that she had not voluntarily underwent the mindwipe, but rather, it was something that was mandated by her superiors because she discovered Romulan infiltration of the VHC and they couldn't afford to just kill her off.

I hate the idea that she's only testing the waters of emotion because she has some kind of violent past with the Vulcan Security Ministry

But Home pretty much nukes that theory as T'Les states point-blank that T'Pol has always been a more emotional Vulcan than the others...

For the contradiction about the number of Trip's siblings, i just assume that Trip knows how many siblings he has, and Phlox was mistaken. Perhaps Trip is estranged from his brother for some reason and never mentioned him to Phlox? Shit happens in families sometimes, especially families that are separated by time and/or distance.

The thing about Archer's Dad is a bigger problem. I suppose that it is possible that Henry started training his son for flight school as soon as he was tall enough to reach the controls, but doubtful. Maybe Soong was just wrong? He could have read the report that had a typo on it. Maybe some clerk typed in 12 when it was actually 21. Never underestimate the power of clerical incompetence.

You can always come up with some excuse if you look hard enough.



P.S.

Nope, that won't work. Just remembered that Phlox was on the bridge droning on and on about space germs during that Breaking the Ice videogram to the nephew's class back on Earth. So he had to know about him. Hm... Phlox just forgot? Phlox was nipping at the bat saliva on the sly and it wiped his memory? Phlox got so busy ogling T'Pol's rack that he could only think of females? I dunno.

*ponders*

blackn'blue wrote:Phlox got so busy ogling T'Pol's rack that he could only think of females? I dunno.

Well can you blame him? they would do it to me as well..... :banana:

Or, more likely IMO, he was too busy trying to play the "sympathy" card for Trip, hoping that T'Pol would fall for it and get semi-naked with Tucker 3/week for "neuropressure."

Rigil Kent wrote:Or, more likely IMO, he was too busy trying to play the "sympathy" card for Trip, hoping that T'Pol would fall for it and get semi-naked with Tucker 3/week for "neuropressure."

*sigh* I'm in the wrong universe....


Spose when ya die, if you go to Heaven, it's like, your personal heaven, and you can live in any fictitious universe you want? as.... anybody you want?

Trip knows how many brothers he has and Phlox doesn't. Problem solved. Trip MUST have a brother, because I loved the episode where Trip gets pictures from his neices or nephews (in Ireland?) and had to answer questions for school children. It really made a connection between their times and ours. How kids today always have to ask shuttle astronauts how they go to the bathroom.

Also Trip must have a brother, because he seems like a middle child to me. His brother must be the oldest. If Trip was the oldest he'd have a bigger head. As it is he's cocky (confident), but doesn't consider himself the center of the universe. He gets along with everybody. That's a middle child.

I'm an agnostic with regard to how and when Archer's father died. He died in whatever way works best for your story, that's how he died.

justTrip'n wrote:Also Trip must have a brother, because he seems like a middle child to me. His brother must be the oldest. If Trip was the oldest he'd have a bigger head. As it is he's cocky (confident), but doesn't consider himself the center of the universe. He gets along with everybody. That's a middle child.

I completely disagree with based on my own experiences. My sister is the middle child and she absolutely sees herself as the center of reality and is impossible to get along with.

Based on Archer's question about which sister died ("Younger or older"), it seemed to me that Trip had both because I find it inconceivable that his friend of 10 years doesn't know what his family is like. Thus, for me, its:

• Older Sister
• Trip (hence him being the III since that's generally what the firstborn son is named)
• Younger Brother
• Elizabeth

^
But why would Trip tell Kov that his brother taught him how to dance for a school dance when he was a kid... maybe it's as simple as one of his parents had a prior marriage and he had an older step-brother or something.

Jedikatie wrote:^
But why would Trip tell Kov that his brother taught him how to dance for a school dance when he was a kid... maybe it's as simple as one of his parents had a prior marriage and he had an older step-brother or something.

Actually, the line is:

So I spent weeks practicing the two-step with my brother

That doesn't mean Trip's brother taught him how to dance it...

I'm too slow at posting. I was about to agree with Rigil, but now I think that Trip's brother taught him to dance.

If Trip was anything but the III, I would tempted to agree as well but, barring some rare exceptions, the firstborn son is the one who gets the Junior or III or IV name...

Rigil Kent wrote:Based on Archer's question about which sister died ("Younger or older"), it seemed to me that Trip had both because I find it inconceivable that his friend of 10 years doesn't know what his family is like. Thus, for me, its:

• Older Sister
• Trip (hence him being the III since that's generally what the firstborn son is named)
• Younger Brother
• Elizabeth

Agreed! That's how I've always pictured it and this is how it is in my little corner of the ENTverse.

But I don't recall what Phlox said and when!?

Kevin Thomas Riley wrote:But I don't recall what Phlox said and when!?

In The Xindi, when Phlox attempts to recruit Polly for the VNP sessions:

PHLOX: Do you have any siblings?
T'POL: No.
PHLOX: Commander Tucker had one sister. She was killed in the attack.

The implication is clear: he had one sibling who was his sister ... which violates Trip's previous comment to Kov back in The Rapist That Walks Away Instead Of Getting Blown Out The Fraking Airlock Like He Deserves episode where Trip references his brother.