"Endgame"

[CX]

Anyone remember them hyping up how they were going to have it so hard because of limited resources and such before the show started?

[JadziaKathryn]

Hehe... when Voyager started, I still thought Star Trek was a soap opera. Let me explain: my mom dislikes soap operas and Star Trek, so when I was younger I came to the understandable but entirely erroneous conclusion that Star Trek must be a soap opera. (And you can imagine how thrilled my mom was when I got into Trek. Yet, because she's the best, she took me to Star Trek: The Experience when my dad had a business trip in Vegas. My poor mom was totally freaked out by the six-foot-something fully costumed Klingon.)

Anyway, now and again they made references to running low on supplies. That was the idea behind replicator rations, I believe, and there's the classic Janeway line, "There's coffee in the nebula." Still, it would've been more realistic if there was an ugly gash on the hull or something.

I still think Voyager is fantastic all around, though. It was my first Trek love. *forces self to go back and study for final*

[CX]

They only mentioned it every now and again, and it pretty much came off as dumb each time. Like that planet that somehow had liquid deuterium on the surface of it and it turned out to be sentient. Not to mention all the shuttles when they should've had maybe 4 at most plus the captain's gig.

[CoffeeCat]

I think the only reason I kept watching Voyager after 7of9 was because it became a great source of parody material.

Alright, I admit to wanting to see Paris and Torres have a happy ending, but I was extremely dissapointed at how they got there.

[CX]

I was more of a casual watcher. I was never really into it and I basically watched it because it was Star Trek.

[blacknblue]

I just realized something. I have not turned on the tv on my own behalf for anything except news and Jay Leno in months. And I don't miss it at all. Interesting.

[CoffeeCat]

That's good. TV rots your brain

Seriously. I haven't subscibed to any TV service since the first season of Enterprise and I don't miss it at all. If I want to watch something I seek it out online. If I can't find it, I consider DL-ing a torrent (which I do only if it's really really worth it to me).

[TPoptarts]

Heh I don't watch TV anymore at all. I don't even have a TV anymore. I watched up until the Farscape finale on channel 13 (formerly UPN) because it's too old to find online and all the torrents are like totally dead. Anything else I wanna watch I just watch like online or download if it doesn't play online.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

I was more of a casual watcher. I was never really into it and I basically watched it because it was Star Trek.

Yeah, me too! Well that and the fact that we're not exactly spoiled by science fiction shows on TV in Sweden. You take what you can get...

[Elessar]

Man I really found this conversation late in the game

Voyager is probably one of the Trek shows I've caught the most. I saw some of it as it aired new, I saw almost all of it all over again in syndication, then I watched it all from start to finish on DVD, THEN in the process of downloading it for a friend I watched it all over again, but only from Season 3 on.

I realized, after I watched Caretaker, that it was pretty crappy in Seasons 1-3 (i.e., until 7 came) not for the obvious reasons, but the storytelling just got a lot more interesting. As I was cruising Memory Alpha for some information regarding a fic, I kept coming across mentions of things that Voyager screwed up, it was actually kind of funny because I remembered that here and there I saw a lot of people crucify Voyager for violating canon even more than Enterprise, yet I'd never seen the evidence. Well, besides episodes like "Threshold", that is.

But now I have a little more understanding of why people (the hardcore ones who notice things like units) don't like Voyager, one of the reasons is they butchered a lot of units by using obscenely high numbers like "4 billion terraquads" of information ("One") or 4 trillion isotons, for the Malon freighter carrying antimatter waste. It's actually rather funny. Apparently they just wanted colossal numbers in Voyager so they used all the huge prefixes like terra- and iso- and then added words like "billion" and "trillion" in front of them. Pretty soon the units lost any meaning at all, heh.

Those were the complaints I found on Memory Alpha. The other one was the C/7 deal which, was, admittedly, weird.

Honestly, after I watched it a third time, I saw all this chemistry in different places that I hadn't seen before. I was mixing-and-matching all these other ships from what appeared on the show in my head thinking others would work better. Like? Like Tom-Seven. (Seriously, chemistrrrrryyyy!) And even though he was the Ship's Loser, Harry deserved a woman and I think by making him obsessed with Seven they pretty much ruined that possibility. The same for the Doctor. I was never rooting for the EMH and 7, he was majorly creepy. I think Caretaker sowed some good seeds for a friendship-perhaps-more between Harry and B'Elanna, but the whole "Starfleet-Maquis" thing, (their nicknames for each other) and in turn the whole chemistry that was there, got locked away and pulled out only once every few years. How nice to be Harry Kim, he gets laid less than a Vulcan

Early on, they had good J/C chemistry, but I think they had Janeway intentionally get rid of it after "Revelations" when they basically came as close as they were going to come to doing anything. After that, Janeway pretty much realized it had to end there, which is probably accurate. Ahem, first officer-captain...Doesn't work, *cough*aint*cough*

AH YES, the topic. Endgame. It was a good episode, it just should have been 45 minutes longer. I wanted to see tons of stuff from when they actually GOT BACK to the alpha quadrant. But I ordered the Homecoming books to read for that. Still... things like, what Seven would go through, and seeing Janeway actually promoted, got me thinking. I still don't know if Chakotay should REALLY be made a Captain though. He was a good first officer for the occasion, but from start-to-finish he had a tendency to toss "Starfleet ideals" out the window at the first sign of inconvenience. Meh.

I think the only reason that he and Janeway worked together as Captain/1st is because he was underbearing when it came to Starfleet codes of conduct and she was OVER bearing. I'm not quite sure if there was a morale to that show, and if I dug through the options, I'm not sure I'd find one I liked. The whole time, Janeway strands her crew there 4 or 5 times because she makes the decision to help another race over her crew...then pisses about it for a year or so in between opportunities... then, basically the morale of the finale is, if your friends are in danger and death is certain, it's ok to sacrifice your ethics to do what's best for "me and mine". I mean, it was basically a lucky cop-out that, as younger janeway put it, they got to "have their cake and eat it too". Somebody should have gotten the shaft out of that deal... and older Janeway doesn't count... she was introduced IN the finale. Somebody important should have been sacrificed, or a race we already knew of take a lot of damage. It would have been the responsible story to tell.

[CoffeeCat]

Like? Like Tom-Seven. (Seriously, chemistrrrrryyyy!)

I have to laugh. When some of the scenes between them aired, even as a P/Ter I'd notice it - but now watching some of the same reruns again, I think, naaaaa.

The funny thing about Seven is that I hate the character, but I think Jeri Ryan is a supurb actress and she is a lot like Connor because she has natural chemestry with anyone. I hope that someday she'll share the screen with Connor. *that* would be interesting.