The Whine thread.

[Linda]

I love this conversation! I'm going to print it off - it is a keeper. What is considered "good" in fiction seems to be a complex subject. Some of what has been said here, I instinctively had guessed but it is satisfying to see other people confirm it. I read a lot of science fiction in my teen years, gravitating toward what was considered "soft" - the socialogical kind rather than the technoligical "hard" kind. But I did (and do) enjoy both.

In the back of my mind is the idea that if I want to become a "good" writer, I should be reading more of what are considered the classics and what is considered good writing by the denizens of English departments. But what engages me is not always what is considered good writing. So I am glad someone else mentioned that here. For example, in a creative writing course I took last year, the instructor really raked Dan Brown over the coals. I had enjoyed his books but was afraid to admit it. I really wanted her to explain WHY she considered his books poorly written, but that was not the focus of the class. I guess I should do a web search and find some reviews which explain this attitude to me.

[Alelou]

Hamlet would be next. Jesus, how depressing. The Tempest I didn't like as much, thought it was kind of boring.

Tempest is boring if you just read it. You have to see it performed. Or perform it yourself. I had my honors high school students translate it into other settings and try to have some fun with it. I still remember their presentation of "Here on Caliban's Isle" complete with Gilligan's Island costumes. What a hoot. The Derek Jarman movie version of this one is particularly wild and crazy. It includes a chorus line singing "Stormy Weather." LOL.

I think the first Shakespeare I ever liked for myself was "Much Ado About Nothing" which I just saw on television. That was a lot of fun. That's another good option for high school. "Taming of the Shrew," too.

[Distracted]

I love the Taylor/Burton version of "Kiss Me Kate". I know it isn't "pure Shakespeare", but the story is great and the characterizations are hilarious. That's the sort of thing that a young person can relate to. Not a story where everyone ends up dead at the end. Gah. I hated Hamlet and R&J in high school. Too blasted depressing.

[Alelou]

I think Dan Brown is considered 'bad' because his characterizations are quick and dirty (people are good or people are bad, without much grey area), his plots beg plausibility, he relies a bit too much on cliche, and he makes absolutely no attempt to disguise his outrageously Perils-of-Pauline chapter endings. But of course that's why you read his books -- you can't stop until you find out what happens next. I think it may also irritate literary writers because he's successful and makes gobs of money and most literary writers are lucky if they make $50 bucks from a short story once or twice a year in a literary journal and get 100 readers consisting mostly of other frustrated literary writers, who tend to be so jealous that this dude actually got something published they have nothing nice to say.

This is an extremely cynical take on the biz, but whatever. One thing I have come to realize about my own writing is that it never quite rises to the level of 'literary,' so I don't really need to worry about that anymore. I'd personally be much happier to sell potboilers, but I'm not managing that either. Fanfic is so relaxing in comparison. Write, publish, get feedback, be happy. Yay.

[Bether6074]

Ludjin, that was her name. Ludwig? Duh.

I get good feelings when I write, so why not indulge that? I like accessing my own inner-sappiness. If it sucks, it sucks then. Hopefully someone hears me in the process. It's self-expression and that can't be a bad thing...even when the writing is less than perfect. The beauty of fanfic, I suppose.

[Asso]

I love the Taylor/Burton version of "Kiss Me Kate".

Me too. ABSOLUTELY. It's splendid.

[WarpGirl]

It's good actually it's nearly exceptional, but quite honestly I ADORE the real "Kiss Me Kate" with Howard Keel, Kathryn Grayson, and Music and lyrics by the incompareble COLE PORTER! It's just classic.

[WarpGirl]

I'm miserable and fuzzy with valium. It hurts. And I don't know when I can go home. I still need to work on the novel then get back to fanfic. Too make matters worse I blew my deadline.

[Reanok]

Warpgirl I'm Sorry you're not feeling get well soon.

[honeybee]

Fanfic is so relaxing in comparison. Write, publish, get feedback, be happy. Yay.

Honestly, it's a very pure form, isn't it? The fact the corporations own are mythology frees us from the constraints of the market. You write for pure pleasure and hope others enjoy it. That's it.

[Elessar]

Fanfic is so relaxing in comparison. Write, publish, get feedback, be happy. Yay.

Honestly, it's a very pure form, isn't it? The fact the corporations own are mythology frees us from the constraints of the market. You write for pure pleasure and hope others enjoy it. That's it.

And I find it kind of a nice hybridization to create original characters like my Solkar.

[enterprikayak]

Totally agree. You don't have to worry about characters or a basis for a story with fanfic...you just take everything ready-made for you, and you write. Such a good exercise!

[WarpGirl]

Fanfic for me is practice. I figure if people like my fanfic, I might get this Russian thing published. WHICH I EXPECT YOU ALL TO BUY!!!!!!!! Oh I might be going home soon wich likely means no net access.

[Ludmila]

Fanfic for me is practice. I figure if people like my fanfic, I might get this Russian thing published. WHICH I EXPECT YOU ALL TO BUY!!!!!!!! Oh I might be going home soon wich likely means no net access.

I promise to buy and will not make the public critic remarks
I do wish to read the published work of the authors who wrote thrilling Enterprise fantic. I hope that more people to try it.

[Alelou]

Fanfic for me is practice. I figure if people like my fanfic, I might get this Russian thing published. WHICH I EXPECT YOU ALL TO BUY!!!!!!!! Oh I might be going home soon wich likely means no net access.

Bwa ha ha ha -- but then we'd have to KNOW WHO YOU ARE IN REAL LIFE.