What have we learned from the T'nT sites?

[CX]

This wasn't even a political discussion. I can't even discuss my own 'ship anymore evidently.

[TPoptarts]

Makes me really sad when someone wanna leave the community

[evcake]

ee-may oo-tay.

[JadziaKathryn]

Yeah, we don't all agree on everything. I've certainly learned to stay clear of hot-button social issues. But at the same time, I've learned there are cool people from all over who also like TnT. So - we don't have to agree on everything, as long as we all share our TnT 'shipping!

[TPoptarts]

Hot button issues and different opinions really don't bother me. I actually really enjoy reading diverse opinions about stuff. Even if I disagree with them

[Jedikatie]

Discussing the topic of the thread (even when you disagree) is not the problem. It's when you start discussing the posters and those who are not members here that is the problem.

Disagreement on something is fine, discussing what you like or don't like is fine.

But when it gets into a constant Archer bash-fest (which has happened more than once around here), with posters going on and on about what the A/T'P fans said on their board--uh, yeah, that's not what this board is for. Or a "let's bash those who don't see a positive future for TnT in the books," or calling those who do see the possibility of a future for them "sad" because they hold the same belief held by Archer/T'Pol fans that their couple will get together after *the_abomination*, that's when it becomes a problem.

To use a favorite quote of the mods over at TrekBBS: "Discuss the post, not the poster." Like I said in my post in the TnT's future in the relaunch thread, if you want an excellent example of the type of board you're heading towards if you continue to do those things, then all you have to do is read the 30+ pages of the Archer/T'Pol thread at the Enterprise forum of TrekBBS. It's filled with hatred (towards a certain character, and oddly enough, a character that they purport to be a "fan" of as well), and subtle and not-so-subtle swipes at specific posters and groups of posters. And take a look around the forum itself--it's fairly dead compared to the way it was a year ago, when there were threads filling the first page and half the second with new replies in them...

There are plenty of other things we can discuss. Yes, it's a Trip/T'Pol site. And I think we can all agree that there are things that we wish they had or hadn't done during the show, and things that we hope will be addressed in the future, be it in the books or elsewhere. Discussing those things shouldn't have to turn into an argument, however. "Discussion" means you talk about it, not see who can shout their viewpoint the loudest and then declare yourself the winner because everyone else has given up the discussion. This isn't the Jerry Springer show.

For example, there are people who do like Archer who post here--should they be made to feel unwelcome because they do like him just because the majority don't agree with them? They are still TnT fans--they just don't have the utter hatred some have for the captain. But I can totally understand why they don't feel welcome here when all they see is constant bashing of a character they liked, and when they get shouted down for saying "hey, he wasn't that bad." You can state what you don't like about him without having to turn it into a bash-fest.

[CX]

It sure would be nice though if I wasn't made to defend off the cuff remarks that are neither personal nor malicious though. It has a tendancy to make me feel not welcome because more often than not I find myself in the minority.

[Jedikatie]

Perhaps you ought to think about things before you type them, then, CX, because if you're spending more time having to explain what you meant than actually discussing what the topic of the thread is about then maybe you're not expressing your thoughts clearly to others. Or perhaps they are reading something in what you said that isn't there, but you can discuss it in PM and get it straightened out (or not) without dragging the thread even more off topic. Or you could simply not respond at all, just step away from the thread and let it go.

Lord knows, half the stuff that I am sorely tempted at times to post at various boards online (in response to something in someone else's post which pisses me off) ends out getting deleted before I ever hit 'post reply'. I don't stop myself from typing it out, because it is probably the best way for me to get it out of my system, but I also have enough sense to read what I've typed and then make appropriate changes to it before either posting it, or simply deleting the whole thing. I can think of several of those off the top of my head from when I was still posting at TrekBBS, posts I'd spend an hour or more on, and then end out deleting entirely.


Anyway, what I've learned from TnT threads is that there are others out there who are just as fascinated by this couple as I am (and saw the potential for them to be together as early as Broken Bow, like I did). And that if it wasn't for Trip and T'Pol, I probably never would have ever set foot in a Star Trek convention in my life (while I've been to other shows' conventions, the two cons last year which had Connor at them and the cruise next month, are the first actual Star Trek related events I've ever been to). There's also some very talented authors, like Hopeful Romantic, quills, Zane Gray, and Rigil Kent, in this little group of ours and I look forward to reading their fanfics whenever they put them up (even though I don't always remember to review them). And I enjoy meeting all the different people from all over the world who happen to like this couple.

[CX]

I tend to think that more often then not people tend to read soemthing into what I say that isn't there. I have a reputation for being a dick, and however much deserved that is, people expect me to be one, and that's what they see no matter what. It's kind of like that Day of the Dove thing on the other board. I explained it to a certain someone who I have a "history" with, and automatically it was assumed to be some kind of an insult directed at that poster. Thing is, if I was just being a dick, that's when I don't bother trying to provide an explanation, because I meant to be insulting, and there's no question about it because it's really obvious. I'm not the cloak and dagger, fake left when I'm really going left kind of guy, I'm the guy that winds up to give someone everything I have so they can see it coming. When I try to clarify something I've said, it's because I have enough respect for a person and their intelligence to think it's worth my while. And that even included that Day of the Dove instance. Depending on the situation I can be very defensive while doing so. Point is I shouldn't have to be, not here. I shouldn't have to defend my opinion or my point of view here like I would at some other boards. I also shouldn't have to hold my tongue about something when it isn't personal or malicious and is just my opinion and perspective on something on the off chance that someone will take issue with it, and anymore it seems like that's the message I'm getting. Is that so hard to understand? Or am I just a dick?

[Reanok]

I come here to the board to discuss Trip & T'pol and Enterprise the characters the books, the fanfiction and things trek related. I want to come here and have fun.Not bash the characters or see fights break out people having their feelings being hurt and leaving because of it.You can discuss things while not always agreeing with someones point of view you still learn interesting things.I made friends here and met alot of nice people. I enjoy the writers Hopeful romantic, Zane , Quills ,and Rigil too name a few.Let's have fun this is why we're here to discuss Startrek to talk about what we enjoy about our favorite couple and series what makes it special to us.

[evcake]

Actually, I have come to like the captain. Not as much as Our Favorite Couple, of course. My problem with him at first was more with Bakula as an actor, I think. Quantum Leap was so painfully lame (to my mind) and it went on for sooooo long.

Anyway, I've watched most of the episodes a few times now, and I've come to appreciate him more. I don't really care if he makes any kind of sense militarily or even para-militarily. None of the captains does, really, and for me, that's not what Trek's about. You have to suspend belief (or is it disbelief, and why does she use so many parentheses?) or you'll never have any fun on Star Trek. I don't really care to nitpick it. So I got used to Bakula, and now I've come to enjoy the Captain. With Malcolm out on the hull; telling the Andorians and Tellarites to shut up and start acting like humans; telling T'pol he hopes she'll stay in command after he croaks from Silicon Pneumonia.

It's a good ensemble - the best since TOS, and Bakula is a large part of it.

Oh, and the first time I saw A Night In Sickbay it was excruciating - now I think its funny.

[Reanok]

After watching the episodes I've gotten used to Archer being a Captain who makes mistakes and cares about his crew. Picard was a stuffy captain and I find him annoying in how he treats his crew sometimes and I prefer a captain who makes mistakes and learns from them. And Archer wants to be friends with his crew he's not stand offish like Picard is.I like our favorite couple. And the frienships with the other crewmembers and I like the cast from ENT. I wish we were getting to see a movie with this cast instaead of a Tos reboot.

[evcake]

Me too! Anyone have a good source for info on this movie?

[CX]

Sisko was far superior to them all. Archer couldn't lead his way out of a wet paper bag. Civilian or military, the basics of leadership are really pretty much the same. I could go over all the things he did that showed his incompetance, all the actions his took that negatively impacted the members of his crew, and everything else I feel makes him unfit for command, but I've done it all before - it didn't change any minds then, and I doubt it will now either.

[Rigil Kent]

'tis why I generally don't bother doing so anymore myself.

Besides, the Archer in Endeavour fics kicks ass.