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krn wrote:^^so, Elessar, is this what comes out when you write - or do you actually give it thought? Because I actually had to think about how to phrase that last sentence - and I want to know if I need to hate you for your natural proclivity for prose or hate you for a finely honed skill.

I know. He's a bastard.

krn wrote:^^so, Elessar, is this what comes out when you write - or do you actually give it thought? Because I actually had to think about how to phrase that last sentence - and I want to know if I need to hate you for your natural proclivity for prose or hate you for a finely honed skill.


And I'm with everyone here - Traditions have a place and can be wonderful. But to do something because "that's how it's always been done" is just narrow-minded and lazy.

I don't know, took me 4-5 minutes to write, hehehe, but thanks.

enterprikayak wrote:

krn wrote:^^so, Elessar, is this what comes out when you write - or do you actually give it thought? Because I actually had to think about how to phrase that last sentence - and I want to know if I need to hate you for your natural proclivity for prose or hate you for a finely honed skill.

I know. He's a bastard.

I heart you too.

Elessar wrote:I believe in the power of ignorance... so while I think her life would have been emotionally empty and given that we have all generally accepted the idea that for *some* reason T'Pol seems more emotionally tuned than the average Vulcan, she would always be on some level aware of it, and I think it would gnaw at her the rest of her life if she had married Koss, EVEN IF she hadn't allowed herself to become close to Trip. Like if she had physically removed him from her life by retreating to Vulcan, I think she could have had "a life", but I think a little voice inside her would always infuse doubt into what might have otherwise grown for her - and does for other Vulcans - into a seamlessly convincing facade of domestic contentment.

Notwithstanding the gorgeous truth of your other two dazzling paragraphs (Jeez!), I still don't entirely buy the idea that all Vulcans merely attain convincing facades of domestic contentment. T'Les sure seemed to have an emotional reaction of some kind to her husband's jacket in "Home," and to his memory. Just because two people don't know each other when they start out doesn't mean that, assuming they are both reasonably honorable people, they might not eventually develop a strong and true affection for each other.

I also just don't assume that Koss's motives were as sleazy as we TnT partisans like to think. He seemed genuinely interested in T'Pol and eager to help her and her mother regain their standing in society (even if he had to twist her arm a little to get her there); he wasn't even turned off by the illness thing. He also helped T'Pol and Archer when it mattered, and ultimately released T'Pol when it became apparent that she was a seriously reluctant bride. I wouldn't be surprised if there was actually some political agenda at work, but still I just don't see the need to condemn him. Within the standards of his own culture, he may have been behaving quite generously.

Alelou wrote: Notwithstanding the gorgeous truth of your other two dazzling paragraphs (Jeez!), I still don't entirely buy the idea that all Vulcans merely attain convincing facades of domestic contentment. T'Les sure seemed to have an emotional reaction of some kind to her husband's jacket in "Home," and to his memory. Just because two people don't know each other when they start out doesn't mean that, assuming they are both reasonably honorable people, they might not eventually develop a strong and true affection for each other..

God moves in a mysterious way.

[/quote]I also just don't assume that Koss's motives were as sleazy as we TnT partisans like to think. He seemed genuinely interested in T'Pol and eager to help her and her mother regain their standing in society (even if he had to twist her arm a little to get her there); he wasn't even turned off by the illness thing. He also helped T'Pol and Archer when it mattered, and ultimately released T'Pol when it became apparent that she was a seriously reluctant bride. I wouldn't be surprised if there was actually some political agenda at work, but still I just don't see the need to condemn him. Within the standards of his own culture, he may have been behaving quite generously.[/quote]

To make virtue of necessity.

Not such a bad guy, just a really inconvienient guy.

Koss might have been interested, but it was pretty obvious that T'Pol wasn't. If he really wanted her to be "happy" as he claimed, then he should've let her go instead of basically buying her by promising to get her mother her job back. That's what makes him a bad guy, IMO.

In his own way I think that Koss thought he was looking out for T'Pol and her long term interests. Being a Vulcan he could not conceive that she could actually be "happy" and have a fulfilling life by not adhering to Vulcan customs. Also, when she stated her illness, it might only have made him believe that it was her illness that made her act the way she did towards him.

That said, I was never a big fan of the whole Koss thing, which only was a way for the writers to postpone TnT and throw some more angst into the mix. Still liked Home though...

I say: blindness.
And that's a "FAULT"!

Yes, to you and me Koss looks like a shithead, but suppose:
1) You have no idea about 'true love' because the concept isn't understood or valued on your planet.
2) You think it is a child's obligation to honor his or her parents' wishes and that a betrothal represents an entirely reasonable and customary wish.
3) You assume that most couples begin as strangers in marriage.
4) You know that by marriage you can rehabilitate the reputation and livelihood of a worthy woman who is presumably a family friend or ally.
5) You might even be able to resurrect the reputation of her somewhat notorious daughter, if possibly at some cost to your own.
5) You find said notorious daughter quite intriguing.
6) You're convinced, along with everyone else on Vulcan, that said notorious daughter probably just needs a good nudge back toward Vulcan norms in order to achieve a proper fit in her own society.
7) One of these days fairly soon you know you're going to wake up needing some booty really BAD.

Absolutely right!
But sometimes it's necessary dare!
If you don't know it, I suggest you to read "The Betrothed" by Alessandro Manzoni.
It's enlightening.

Asso wrote:If you don't know it, I suggest you to read "The Betrothed" by Alessandro Manzoni.
It's enlightening.

Don't suppose it's fanfic, is it?

Fanfic is typology.
Typology is unfair.
"UNFAIR"?

You're making me dizzy!!!!!

me too! See icon...