Reboot VOY

[CoffeeCat]

^ you mean like 1984, Brave New World, Mein Kamph, The Handmaid's Tale etc... Yah - I skimmed them.

The closest thing to Utopian I've ever seen in literature would be J.R. Tolkein's Hobbit society or C.S. Lewis' Narnia. If you will notice: both intstances assume a deity and neither are human based.

In all instances, the author assumes the complete innocence of all people in the society. I mean innocence in the biblical sense: having never rebelled against God.

Also, in all instances, the story is usually about some devil coming in and turing things upsidedown and is generally a parallel or some variation of the Biblical account in the book of Genesis.

You will also note that TOS seemed to use this same theme at times, except the "devil" in the garden is usually either the Klingons or Captain Kirk himself.

I honestly don't mind that kind of story when it's done that way. But when you get into stories that assume that humans are so great that we can accomplish utopia on our own in our current state of depravity, you will always get a distopia.

[Linda]

Sigh, I guess I am not one to see things as hard and fast or limited. So I see the concept of utopia as having shades of meaning and a variety of ways that people can envision it. It has no emotional laden meaning for me, but just a concept to be contemplated and played with. Perhaps the known experiments have not worked well when attempted to be put into practice like the Darien experiment or the Shaker communities. Or Animal Farm, from literature. But that does not mean it could never work. I guess my view is that just because we have no good examples of something happening does not mean it couldn't happen. A foolishly optimistic view? An, LOL, 'utopian' view? I guess so.

I don't see there being a definitive good or evil, only a balance of elements. A balance between all the needs of living (and non-living) things in this universe or any universe. I see all things in life as a balance which is constantly shifting, no absolutes, with truth being a perception or a reality that changes from one individual to another. Maybe I am not expressing my self clearly here, but I am comfortable with this world view. And I like humor in life. I think that comes out in my fan fic a lot. If fan fic stopped being fun, I guess I would stop reading and writing it. People on this site are intelligent and fun.

[CoffeeCat]

This is off the current conversaton but I was just wondering if anyone was actually abitious enough to tackle a "Voyager Reboot" fan fiction project?

I might be interested, but I'm not willing to do it all by myself.

[Linda]

I have so many ENT stories in mind that I would rather concentrate on that. Its been fun speculating about VOY, though.

[Rigil Kent]

I honestly don't mind that kind of story when it's done that way. But when you get into stories that assume that humans are so great that we can accomplish utopia on our own in our current state of depravity, you will always get a distopia.

Heh. And I get called a misanthrope.

I've got nothing really to add to this since I didn't like VOY.

[CoffeeCat]

I prefer the term 'realist' - but I guess it's all just a big fat game of semantics anyway. Fine. Call me what you will, I am what I am and will most likely always be the devil in someones garden, eh?

[Rigil Kent]

No offense was intended. I wholeheartedly agree with you in regards to human nature. It's one of the reasons that TNG bores me to tears and, frankly, VOY is no better. (No frame of reference for DS9 as I've barely watched it). The idea that a utopia is even possible causes me to roll my eyes.

But then, I always saw the Federation of TNG to be distopian anyhoo...

[CoffeeCat]

No offense taken. It's just the first time I've ever been called a misanthrope. I had to look it up, actually

So given the definition of it:
I don't think I particularly "hate" mankind. I think if I hated mankind I'd actually be pushing the illusion of utopia on them through my fiction knowing full well that it's B.S. that they can't handle. If I hated mankind, I wouldn't speak what I perceive as true.

[Rigil Kent]

Well, I wouldn't say that I hate mankind either. Distrust them? Hell yeah. Dislike them? Yup. Hence ... misanthrope.

Distracted added the "bloodthirsty" to my title later on...

[CoffeeCat]

well, I guess by that definition we are in the same boat then.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

^ Can you make room for me too on that boat!

And again, I see a utopian community as a planned community, something people chose to create.

And that's what really scares me about "utopia". It's collective planning that would have little to no room for individualism, freedom and personal choice. Adapt or suffer the consequences. Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated! (Sorry, I couldn't resist that... )

[CoffeeCat]

Yah, KTR - the boat is pretty frelling big.

Er. And that "planned community" stuff is pretty scary.

[Rigil Kent]

Conform! Be a good Minbari!

[evcake]

"Winwood Reade is good upon the subject," said Holmes. "He remarks that, while the individual man is an insoluble puzzle, in the aggregate he becomes a mathematical certainty. " Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Sign of The Four

Man's cleverness is almost indefinite, and stretches like an elastic band, but human nature is like an iron ring. You can go round and round it, you can polish it highly, you can even flatten it a little on one side, whereby you will make it bulge out the other, but you will NEVER, while the world endures and man is man, increase its total circumference. H. Rider Haggard Allan Quatermain

Conan Doyle, Machiavelli, Twain. You're certainly in good literary company.

No, wait! I have one more!

“It is silly to go on pretending that under the skin we are brothers. The truth is more likely that under the skin we are all cannibals, assassins, traitors, liars and hypocrites.”
— Henry Miller, American novelist (1891-1980)

[blacknblue]

I don't see why so many people seem to get depressed about this. Plain fact, we are teh surviving descendants fo the most sucessful pack hunting predators on the planet. It would be odd indeed if we were not dangerous, aggressive, sneaky, opportunistic, sly, etc. Those are the qualities that kept our ancestors alive. If they did not have those qualities, we would nto be here. Why is this something to complain about. Glory in it people! We are the rulers of the world! We are the ones who hunt the hunters!