Triaxiansilk.com

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33838894/ns ... nce-space/

Wow.


It sounds ridiculous to suggest that they're over there watching American primetime television, but I can't help but ignore that this is reported a week after the premier of V where a catholic priest struggles through a serious crisis of faith based on this exact question -- what would alien life mean for the church?

By the way, please don't make me regret posting this by devolving this into a religious debate with insinuations and accusations. Just find a way to talk about this without insulting anyone.

The popular belief in alien life was actually widespread in the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries (before we actually traveled to any planets and found them baren). Astronomer Kepler for instance believed there were civilizations living on the moon. Many people assumed there were people living on Mars and Venus. I am even old enough to remember a time when we all hoped there was life on Mars. It was a great disappointment to see the baren wastelands of Mars and and to learn that Venus was melting hot and poisonous.

So . . . by 1800 most religious arguments argued FOR the "plurality of worlds" as the theory of life on other planets was called. The scientific and popular opinion was so strong in favor of plurality of worlds that religious people were anxious to have a faith that was compatible with what seened to be a probability of life on other planets. (This is from astrobiologist David Grinspoon's book "Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life, 2003).

Grinspoon also quotes from Thomas Paine in "Age of Reason" (1794) arguing that a plurality of worlds is a big problem for Christianity:

"From whence then could arise the solitary and strange conceit, that the Almighty, who had millions of wolds equally dependent on his protection, should quit the care of all the rest, and come to die in our world, because they say one man and one woman had eaten an apple! and, on the other hand, are we to suppose that every wold in the boundless creation had an Eve, and apple, a serpent, and redeemer? In this case, the person who is irreverently called the Son of God, and sometimes God himself, would have nothing else to do than to travel from world to world in an endless succession of death, with scarcely a monetary interval of life."

To give you an idea that this is not a new topic for discussion, lol . . .

Thomas Paine wrote, "Common Sense" during the American Revolution, a pamphlet arguing for democracy and against monarchy. It turned the tide of public opinion in America and the argument of the book still sounds like pure common sense to my mind. Very, very readable -- even today.

I think religions will, if they have not already, adapt to the concept of extraterestrial life. It would be good to do this now so if contact is made, we will be somewhat (but we never can be wholly) prepared for it. I see it as a continuium of intellectual development for humans who once thought the earth was the center of the universe. It was a shock to learn the earth orbited the sun. And it would be a shock, even though we have been yearning for it, to discover other life forms who might be just as intelligent as us.

Once read a story of a Priest/Astronomer who was on a space ship far out in the Galaxy. the ship happened on what had been aplanetary system around a Star that had gone nova. they found sign that the planets had contained intelligent life. the Priest in his curiosity charted out if the Star could have been seen from Earth when it noved. He worked out when it would have been seen and where it would have een seen most cearely. His faith was shaken whe he ralized that this was the Star of Bethelem and god had deestoryed intelligent beings in order for a star to shine and lead the Magi.

Kind of story that causes one to think.

I remember that story. Does anyone know if that was one of Isaac Asimov's stories? Does anybody remember the title of the story? Also, and this is an Asimov story where he wrote about the development of computers which humans built and then exceeded human intelligence. The computers outlived humans and outlived the end of the universe. Then a computer decided to restart the universe and thought about it for awhile. After the computer decided what to do, it said "Let there be light".

Silverbullet wrote:Kind of story that causes one to think.

I remember that story. (I would guess Asimov, too, Linda, but I don't remember.)

It would make me think if I actually believed that particular birth story, which was added long after Jesus had parted this life and does not appear in all the gospels.

I don't see any huge conflict between science and religious belief as long as one's faith is flexible enough to accept that the way people interpreted what they saw 2000 years ago is not going to translate exactly into one's perceptions of reality today. With Christianity in particular it helps if you're also willing to subtract stuff that has been piled onto the original narrative over 2000 years of human institutional politics.

It kind of annoys me when people bring up some scientific fact like it's a great big "gotcha!" for religion. Yeah, if you're incredibly literal-minded. Otherwise ... not so much, dude. (Of course, I was once one of those smug "Gotcha!" types myself, so I guess I do understand where they're coming from.)

Linda, it probably was Assimov. He wrote so many great stories. I read mostly his fiction for hears until I discovered his Essays. I got hooked on those which led me to Stepher Jay Gould. Assimov was a great explainer in a way that Lay people or clods like me could understand his Science writings. Gould was too.

I remember a story about Asimov that was amusing. He was scared to death of flyiing and would not get on an Aircraft. He said that he coudn't elieve that 70 tons of metal belonged five miles up in the air. For years he often said he wanted to Visit Europe. One day someone innocently said "why don't you take a boat and Trains." Assimov had never thught of that and he had an IQ of over 200 Just goes to show that even the brighest can make a mistake.

Elessar wrote:By the way, please don't make me regret posting this by devolving this into a religious debate with insinuations and accusations. Just find a way to talk about this without insulting anyone.

:whiny: Awwwww, but I WANNA devolve!

It makes your tongue fall out, of course. But aside from that it's insinuatory insulting fun.




(kidding, btw)

Asimov didnt think of taking a boat when he was afraid of airplanes? Well that explains why someone as smart as my husband cannot see that his smoking is a second hand threat to my health, even when I had a bout of asthma symtoms. He worries about my weight and my bone density, etc. He does smoke outside the house at least, but he totally blames pet dander for any asthma symptoms. I think sometimes the smartest people are the ones who are best at self delusion!

So right!

You are probably right. But inteligence doesn't always mean that you are smart.

Bone denisty. I have very brittle Bones which is why I am so feaful of falling, Rarely go out anymore because of that. I have to take a pill once a week for Osteoperosis. I have to stand straight up for one half hur right after taking the bill cannot bend over of lie down. Otherwise for some reason the Pill won't work. Ah the joys of old age.

Silverbullet wrote:...Ah the joys of old age.

I hope I will have a bit of your spirit, Silverbullet, when I will have your age.

As a Catholic science buff and science fiction enthusiast I was happy to read, about a year or so I think, that the Catholic church's "official" position (what's really official can be debated even when it comes down to things the Pope says actually, but this I am pretty sure was from the Vatican) is that Extra Terrestrial life is certainly possible, because with God, anything is possible, even if it it difficult or impossible to explain. The offifial Catholic position on evolution might surprise non-Catholic's too, it's considered sound science and I was taught evolution all through Catholic grade school and high school. This is before "intelligent design" was even coined as a phrase, by the way. We were taught all about evolution in bio class and never really got into the whole debate.

Asso, to Paraprashe Adlai Stevenson. "It hurts too much to laugh and I am too old to Cry"

got to look at it positively. Makes others wonder what you are up to or if you are just bonkers

Silverbullet wrote:Once read a story of a Priest/Astronomer who was on a space ship far out in the Galaxy. the ship happened on what had been aplanetary system around a Star that had gone nova. they found sign that the planets had contained intelligent life. the Priest in his curiosity charted out if the Star could have been seen from Earth when it noved. He worked out when it would have been seen and where it would have een seen most cearely. His faith was shaken whe he ralized that this was the Star of Bethelem and god had deestoryed intelligent beings in order for a star to shine and lead the Magi.

It's a short story by Arthur C. Clake called The Star. It can be read here.

It was made into an episode of The Twilight Zone in 1985.