Page 1 of 3

The World is Darker

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:40 pm
by Elessar
Image


George Carlin: 1937-2008

Very much in my opinion the greatest standup or otherwise comedian of television and radio, period. AFI ranked him #2 of all time behind Richard Pryor, but many, many comedians say he's #1.

I was lucky enough to see him in concert (as I was just saying in the other thread) twice. I actually skipped my junior homecoming to see him in St. Louis in 2001 (shortly after 9/11) and then again in 2005 at the Las Vegas Sands Hotel and Casino on the very stage that Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra used to duo together.

Carlin's humor was offensive to some, but so transcendent of the obscenity was the genius of his oral and semantic talents that the nuns at his old catholic school would tell his mother that they were proud of him, even after witnessing his most vulgar routines. If you've never seen a Carlin routine, just drop his name into YouTube and pick from one of literally over thousands of hours of television. The one below is pretty tame.

As he once said, "Jesus is coming... Look busy! :guffaw:

George Carlin

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:46 pm
by Elessar
Another One from the 1970's. This might even be the Phoenix show. I know them all by heart! :D

This particular video has an eloquent and appropriate send off:
Never was there a man that could make you both laugh, think, and even question the way we look at the world, the words we use, and the little things we all know about. Yesterday I lost one of my longest standing heroes. This is my small tribute to that man, George Carlin.

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:20 pm
by JadziaKathryn
:shock: That was tame?!?! I didn't even watch the whole thing and I fright to think what something wild would be. Egad.

Also, beware that that first clip above is virulently anti-religion. If other people want to eschew faith, that's their choice, but I do wish they'd do it without looking down on those of us who believe and making fun of us. :mad:

I feel dirty. Where's that brain soap?

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:21 pm
by Distracted
He was a very funny man. :(

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:45 pm
by Elessar
JadziaKathryn wrote::shock: That was tame?!?! I didn't even watch the whole thing and I fright to think what something wild would be. Egad.

Also, beware that that first clip above is virulently anti-religion. If other people want to eschew faith, that's their choice, but I do wish they'd do it without looking down on those of us who believe and making fun of us. :mad:

I feel dirty. Where's that brain soap?


lol, SORRY. I didn't realize the first one was anti-religion. I thought just the second one was. It's hard to go 5 minutes without Carlin being anti-religion :lol:.

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:51 pm
by CX
Which is why I never cared for him all that much. I agreed with him on free speech, but that was about it.

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:45 pm
by Alelou
I agree he can be very funny, but the anti-religion thing gets me with him too and when he piles it on too thick it just doesn't strike me as funny anymore. Same with Bill Maher. I can respect not being religious -- my own parents are not at all religious -- and I can even enjoy a joke about religion, but to endlessly equate all religious people with ignorant twits who believe snakes talk gets really old and just makes the joker look ignorant and close-minded.

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:50 pm
by Distracted
JadziaKathryn wrote::shock: That was tame?!?! I didn't even watch the whole thing and I fright to think what something wild would be. Egad.

Also, beware that that first clip above is virulently anti-religion. If other people want to eschew faith, that's their choice, but I do wish they'd do it without looking down on those of us who believe and making fun of us. :mad:

I feel dirty. Where's that brain soap?


Yeah. He was incredibly vulgar and had controversial opinions about everything. Kinda reminded me of my dad before my dad got sober. Maybe that's why I thought he was funny when he wasn't being delberately obscene. I haven't been able to listen to any of his routines since the late 70's when he came out with a couple of PG-13 sort of records (Yes, children. RECORDS. Those vinyl things that go round and round.) He was funny back then. Later he was just gross. It's sort of a shame. He was very talented.

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:01 am
by Bether6074
I never find comics all that amusing. They can really make you think sometimes, though. The loss of any life is always sad. :(

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:27 am
by Elessar
Alelou wrote:I agree he can be very funny, but the anti-religion thing gets me with him too and when he piles it on too thick it just doesn't strike me as funny anymore. Same with Bill Maher. I can respect not being religious -- my own parents are not at all religious -- and I can even enjoy a joke about religion, but to endlessly equate all religious people with ignorant twits who believe snakes talk gets really old and just makes the joker look ignorant and close-minded.


It depends on what you hit on, but as an obsessive fan of his I know that most of the time, the thing that set George Carlin apart from other anti-religion comedians like Bill Maher was that he had the ability to put himself into the mindset of a believer and then say, "Ok, assuming you believe this, then what about ____?" or something similar.

The thing you have to be aware of with Carlin is that he perceives "religion" as an institution and thus criticizes its belief structure the way one would criticize the nationalism and propaganda of a government if it tried to claim all-knowingness.

I don't know, as someone that's not a strong adherent to organized religion but not considering myself an atheist, I always very much identified with his criticism of religion, which wasn't as one-dimensional as "all religious people are nuts". I think people who are religious just get insulted when someone who's an agnostic or an academic, like Carlin, tells them that they're only religious because their beliefs are a crutch to get through the hard times, and consequently there doesn't end up being any meaningful debate.

Because Carlin disagrees with organized religion and religiously-motivated external policy (i.e., prosylizing of one's values onto others), he rarely ever admits to having spirituality or religious beliefs because he doesn't want to be categorized that way. But rarely, and there are some in his performances, he'll talk about what he believes spiritually - tossed in with some comedy like, "I pray to Joe Pesci. And I get the same result as when I prayed to God," :lol:.

I think that the perspective of the Agnostic or atheist who's trying to say that religion is ridiculous is probably best understood by imagining what one would feel if you were the only sane person in an insane asylum of 6 billion people and you were trying to explain to everyone that the flying purple cats that professed their eternal love and told them what to do weren't real, and that they're just making up those flying purple cats to cope with their hard lives. The huge majority of the 6 billion would undoubtedly consider those people to be insulting them. When in fact those people are just trying to tell them what their own logical mind leads them to conclude.

Just an illustration.

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:23 am
by Alelou
Honestly, my reaction was less to his stand-up, which I can pretty much deal with, than to that last book, which I found unreadable. It just seemed so bitter and unfunny to me.

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:39 am
by JadziaKathryn
Elessar wrote:I think that the perspective of the Agnostic or atheist who's trying to say that religion is ridiculous is probably best understood by imagining what one would feel if you were the only sane person in an insane asylum of 6 billion people and you were trying to explain to everyone that the flying purple cats that professed their eternal love and told them what to do weren't real, and that they're just making up those flying purple cats to cope with their hard lives. The huge majority of the 6 billion would undoubtedly consider those people to be insulting them. When in fact those people are just trying to tell them what their own logical mind leads them to conclude.

Just an illustration.
So now I'm equated with an insane person who conjures up flying purple cats????? :explode: :explode:

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:54 am
by Elessar
JadziaKathryn wrote:
Elessar wrote:I think that the perspective of the Agnostic or atheist who's trying to say that religion is ridiculous is probably best understood by imagining what one would feel if you were the only sane person in an insane asylum of 6 billion people and you were trying to explain to everyone that the flying purple cats that professed their eternal love and told them what to do weren't real, and that they're just making up those flying purple cats to cope with their hard lives. The huge majority of the 6 billion would undoubtedly consider those people to be insulting them. When in fact those people are just trying to tell them what their own logical mind leads them to conclude.

Just an illustration.
So now I'm equated with an insane person who conjures up flying purple cats????? :explode: :explode:


You gotta understand, I wasn't making the analogy and stating it to be that way, I'm saying that's how some agnostics and atheists feel. If you take your own beliefs out of the equation and just look at it objectively, it's really not all that different. So the actual religion says it's a Man and this example says it's a cat. Academic difference.

If I believe there's a flying spaghetti monster and I feel I've been touched by his noodly appendage, that's what I believe. A lot of people (pretty much EVERYBODY) would call me nuts, if I truly, honestly believed that to be true.

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:17 am
by JadziaKathryn
*mutters under breath* Well, I've never been able to look at religion objectively, much to the horror of some professors. (Because in academia, people are supposed to be all "enlightened" :roll: )

Re: The World is Darker

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:14 pm
by justTripn
His analogy is a really good analogy for describing how agnostics feels. :shock: I was a little surprised to see him put it out there like that, but . . . yeah . . .

In my own case, the religious people in my life never pulled any punches in describing their own view of the universe and how I fit into it: unbelievers go to Hell.

OK, I'm done. I shouldn't touch this discussion with a 10-foot pole.