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Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:43 pm
by Escriba
Yeah, yeah, happy October 12th, American fellows!

On a day like today in 1492 Cristobal Colón (or Christopher Columbus for the English speakers) discovered an island in the deep Atlantic Ocean (then called the Ocean Sea) and he... got the continent wrong.

Yes, the poor fellow made a mistake, but what do you want? Imagine you're a dreamer Italian sailor (or that's the myth, at least) and you want to travel the world because... well, you're Italian, and we now that Italians have this craving for travels since they get to their teen years. So you try to convince rich people to go around the world (when everybody thinks the world is flat) because you want to travel free (of course).

Then, at last, you get to convince the Spanish queen (you are Italian, she is a woman... you get the picture). So she (not her husband) gives you money and the Enterprise... Errr... sorry... I mean, three ships: La Pinta, La Niña and the Santa María. But you don't have a crew, since everybody thinks your voyage is plain suicide, so you take some criminal and prisoners ("The dirty dozen" was based on this).

And you begin your little expedition. At first everything goes right, you are the Captain, the crew follows you and everybody gets on perfectly well while singing "kumbaya". But after 5 weeks... weeeell... things go tougher... The food is running short, the crew is getting anxious, the Pinzón brothers are shut up in their cabin doing God knows what and there is an obnoxios man called Juan de la Cosa who claims he's the labor union liaison and demands two weeks of holidays.

And when you think you're going to lose your head (literally), the dear Rodrigo de Triana sights land. You drop anchor, go down to the island's beach, kiss the sand repeatedly, kill a few inquisitive natives that were passing by and claim that island, San Salvador (people there called it Guanahani, but who cares), and that land, India, for the Spanish crown.

Admit it, anybody in his situation would make the same mistake :D

So, yes, that's why the native americans were called indians. Because they thought they were in India so... You were lucky, imagine if Columbus wanted to go to Switzerland.

Anyway, happy October 12th (even if you think Columbus was a twit) :lol:

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:54 pm
by Alelou
8) Maybe you should give up on the law and start writing history!

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:23 pm
by Asso
Not to be believed! :oops:
But really have Italians this reputation?
But is it possible you can think that a skirt...
Mh. :doubt:
How were the features of that queen? :mrgreen:

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:30 pm
by CX
He also enslaved and killed the Natives he found. He was actually so abusive that his own crew hated him, and he was actually arrested because of it. It's amazing how much of this is glossed over and Columbus is seen as somehow being a nice guy.

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:02 pm
by Asso
Ah, Cx :lol: , no way! Romanticism is not your road :lol: (no offense!)

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:42 pm
by Escriba
CX wrote:He also enslaved and killed the Natives he found. He was actually so abusive that his own crew hated him, and he was actually arrested because of it. It's amazing how much of this is glossed over and Columbus is seen as somehow being a nice guy.

Well, since every white man with a gun that travelled to America enslaved and killed Natives, Columbus doesn't stand out so much for it. I have the theory that his portrayal is so nice because he took chocolate to Europe.

Asso wrote:Not to be believed! :oops:
But really have Italians this reputation?
But is it possible you can think that a skirt...
Mh. :doubt:
How were the features of that queen? :mrgreen:

She was blond and considered very pretty in that Age. But I was kidding :D Columbus convinced Isabel the Catholic because she wanted to expand Christianity to other people (and because she wanted to expand the kingdom; and because there were those crazy theories about Preste Juan's Land). Fernando the Catholic didn't like Columbus' plan because he was a lot more cunning than his wife and was too busy first, conquering Granada and second, trying to expel the jews and keeping their gold ("the Catholic" of his name is very ironic).

Alelou wrote:8) Maybe you should give up on the law and start writing history!

History was my first choice, but Laws College was nearer. Besides, History doesn't have many job opportunities (I don't have the right character to be a teacher :D )

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:03 pm
by CX
There's something on the History Channel right now about how Columbus was brutal to even his own crew. They were so fed up with him that they marooned him. He was an especially arrogant and egotistic man. Not worth celebrating.

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:20 pm
by Asso
It will be difficult to knock down his monuments, Cx! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:31 pm
by Alelou
That lines up with what I've heard too, CX, but do consider that somebody made that History channel biography, and those documentary makers are not always utterly balanced in their positions.

Henry Hudson also "disappeared" while trying to find a Northwest Passage somewhere up in what is now Canada. He was not very popular with his Dutch crew either, or at any rate, they absolutely didn't want him to get them marooned in North America for the winter. It is greatly suspected that they took their fate into their own hands by doing him in.

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:41 pm
by Escriba
Alelou is right, History Channel's documentaries must be taken with a little of salt. I still remember one about Trafalgar that made me retch (and I'm used to "creative rewriting of History").

But anyway, we don't celebrate him, we celebrate the fact that in October 12th of 1492 Europeans officially discovered the continent later called America. And that, for good or for bad, changed History.

Personally, I have no love for the conquerors.

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:58 pm
by Kevin Thomas Riley
So Archer must be a Columbus figure, eh? Only (future) history tells us his crew loved him (what we saw on the show), wheras in reality they wanted to maroon him too... :lol: You know what they say, history is written by the victors.

Sorry, couldn't resist! :oops:

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:10 pm
by Asso
Kevin Thomas Riley wrote:So Archer must be a Columbus figure, eh? Only (future) history tells us his crew loved him (what we saw on the show), wheras in reality they wanted to maroon him too... :lol: You know what they say, history is written by the victors.

Sorry, couldn't resist! :oops:

And because of that, it's History.
Otherwise it would be chronicle.
Sorry, I, too, couldn't resist! :lol:

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:29 pm
by blacknblue
Granted that Columbus was a slaver, but so were many of the Indians that he killed and enslaved. The "noble savage" myth is no more true than the golden boy image of Columbus. People of every color back then were products of their time, and very few of them were saints. Human life was cheap, and human livestock was highly prized by most people in most places.

Yeah. Call me dark. Call me cynical. But am I wrong?

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:44 pm
by Asso
So, may the monuments remain? :D

Re: Happy October 12th!

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:53 am
by Alelou
Asso, you wll be pleased to hear that tomorrow the United States officially observes Columbus Day, a federal holiday. Although a number of businesses will, alas, still be open. Is the stock market open? I hope not. We could really use another day off from that thing.