Randomness

[Elessar]

Oh, yes please write your story, Alelou! And don't be concerned about the scope of it or the length! Just write it according to your own ideas and feelings! I am thrilled to have someone in the same camp! UH, it may be of some comfort when together we are roasted side-by-side by the Koss haters!

Count me in with you ladies regarding Koss--I never hated him either. I had a Koss story in the works a while back...the notes got buried under stacks of RL, tho. Good to hear y'all are stickin' up for him.

I had mixed feelings abotu Koss because he was portrayed in varying lights. There were times he was ok (like when he let her out of the marriage), times when he seemed like he was just trying to do what was best for her, and then there were times when he was being a complete patriarchal douchebag, like when he extorted marriage out of her and I think at one point he said something about how she was going to marry him no matter what.

[Asso]

I follow blacknblue's example.
Alelou, a sole reflection.
Koss is really blessed with fortune by having you writing about him!

[JadziaKathryn]

I'm not convinced that Koss had good intentions when he released T'Pol either. All that really proves is that he wasn't as big of a dick as he could have been, that's all.

Well, nobody's perfect...

I had mixed feelings abotu Koss because he was portrayed in varying lights. There were times he was ok (like when he let her out of the marriage), times when he seemed like he was just trying to do what was best for her, and then there were times when he was being a complete patriarchal douchebag

Once again, consistent characterization eludes the ENT writers. They made him go from jerk to reasonable guy without giving a motive. (Although, frankly, I think he needed a motive to insist on marrying a woman who clearly didn't want him in the first place.)

[Alelou]

Yet Koss, knowing full well how things were between T'Pol and Trip, still went ahead with the blackmail. Remember in the episode Home how he told T'Pol, "Call your champion T'Pol, I will do what I must."

I have no sympathy for a man who deliberately hurts others unless it is in self-defense. In this case, Koss was not doing it in self-defense. He was doing it in hope of gain. Either gain for himself, or gain for his family. Either way, his actions were dishonorable.

But your story is certainly in complete compliance with canon. It fits the onscreen Vulcan arc perfectly. And it paints T'Pau in the kind of ruthless light that would allow her to deliberately permit Kirk to be manipulated and (she thought at the time) killed in order to preserve the life of her own kinsman in the TOS episode Amok Time.

That's partly my point. To the majority of Vulcans, a human is simply beneath full consideration if he dares to interfere with their own way of doing things. T'Pol has learned to think otherwise, and we see T'Les open to Tucker and opposing T'Pau over Archer's welfare, but for the conventional Vulcan it's like -- "If a human is stupid and emotional enough to screw with our most sacred customs, then he's fair game." They also think they're actually being kind to T'Pol by trying to rescue her from her own disastrous feelings and actions. And I think Vulcans revere Surak about the same way the average Christian reveres Christ -- I don't see a whole lot of Christ-like behavior on a daily basis either.

I wrote this story partly to try to sympathize with Koss from a Vulcan point of view, and I purposely made him nicer than he needed to be, but to be honest I ended up liking him very little. The truth is he's a prig, and he's only going to get more so married to T'Pau.

[JadziaKathryn]

The truth is he's a prig

Yes. Quite right. But now at least he's a prig with motives.

And your other thoughts on Vulcans make a lot of sense - rescuing T'Pol from herself and all. It's at the very least plausible. I can speak from experience that humans can convince themselves of the most ridiculous things, so I suppose Vulcans do the same and call it logical.

[Asso]

The truth is he's a prig, and he's only going to get more so married to T'Pau.

[Escriba]

Well, I have my own theory about Koss' personality and motivations. Enough to say that I see him as less evil and T'Les as more manipulator.

But I like Alelou's theory

[Alelou]

The truth is he's a prig

Yes. Quite right. But now at least he's a prig with motives.

And your other thoughts on Vulcans make a lot of sense - rescuing T'Pol from herself and all. It's at the very least plausible. I can speak from experience that humans can convince themselves of the most ridiculous things, so I suppose Vulcans do the same and call it logical.

The thing is, it IS logical from their POV. T'Pol's attachment to Trip is illogical in terms of her own self-interest as a Vulcan who has a place to call home, who has some status, who had a life path laid out for her. Now she will probably never have children, or if she somehow did they wouldn't be accepted by her own people. Not to mention Trip lives half as long as her in the best-case scenario and cannot be counted on, as a Vulcan presumably would be without question, to remain loyal for all of that time. From a Vulcan point of view, she's nuts. She's gone native.

[blacknblue]

Not to mention Trip lives half as long as her in the best-case scenario and cannot be counted on, as a Vulcan presumably would be without question, to remain loyal for all of that time. From a Vulcan point of view, she's nuts. She's gone native.

From TOS episode Amok Time:

T'Pring: "But if you did not release me, it would be the same. For I would have your name, and your property. And Stonn would still be there."

[Alelou]

Okay, you have a point there, but that was pre-marriage/permanent mating bond. Supposedly once that's in place these guys mate for life. I assumed T'Pring's cold reckoning was fairly shocking by any moral standard, even Vulcan, but maybe I'm wrong. (Plus she didn't want anything to do with someone half-human, which it appeared at least some Vulcans could relate to.)

[Asso]

I hadn't ever too much fondness for T'Pring.

[Alelou]

Yeah, I think everyone could agree Spock was better off without THAT t'b-tch.

[CoffeeCat]

I LOVED T'Pring.

But, you're right, Spock was better off w/o her.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Say what you want about T'Pring, but she was damned HOT!

[CoffeeCat]

Well, I don't understand why ppl are so hard on her. Think about it from her perspective: Spock had been in Starfleet for over 11 years at that point, she probably hadn't seen him for about that long so why not take an interest in someone who was probably there for her. What the heck would she do with Spock anyway? She was nothing but a toilet to him - a place where he was going to relieve himself and then go running around the galexy with Captain Kirk for the next seven years until he had to relieve himself again. I wouldn't want to be married for that. She was damn right calling a challenge. I'd bet if T'Pol were in the same situation, everyone here would be cheering her on.