T'Pol's Un-Vulcan Like Behavior

[panyasan]

She had to say someting. would she say that it was just an exploraton. don't think so. I am sure if she said that Trip would have got out of bed furious dressed and stormed out of her quarters. she would not risk that. so she must have said someting to give him the idea that she was doing this out of love for him. I don't think that they could or would have sex without saying a word. NOt knowing how long they were in bed doesn't help as it is hard to judge if all they had time for was one hurried coupling.

Well, to prove your theory, I think it's in Bound when T'Pol refers to their night together with the Vulcan word "mate" and Trip shouts "We didn't mate!" T'Pol is like "Euh.. we did." It looks like Trip reacts so strongly because it wasn't "an exploration" and he knows that (why would he stick around after the breakfast conversation if that was not the case?) and he hates it when he thinks T'Pol is suggesting it. T'Pol on the other hand just used the Vulcan word for sleeping with some one. Don't they have interspecies communication specialists on Vulcan?

[WarpGirl]

Yeah their called diplomats and in the ENT era they aren't very effective at their jobs. Being that T'Pol was training to be a diplomat it caused more problems. Actually to a Vulcan the term "to mate" means more than mere sex or procreational activities. It requires commitment. Score one for T'Pol. I keep saying Trip has to learn Vulcan English. To her credit T'Pol TRIES to understand human English.

[Silverbullet]

When T-Pol says Mate she means that she and Trip did more than have a roll in the hay. to her that meant a life long relationshiop almost a marriage. She viewed it as a commitment from one to the other. She must have been thinking that when she Seduced him.

Trip didn't undersand the word at all. He probably thought she meant that they just had sex and that was that.

Often see mate referred to as a life long comittment. Certain Swans mate for life and if thier mate dies they never mate again. Other animals do the same thing.

don't believe Trip was the harem gathering type. He was just confused in Bound. He did say a few moments later "All right we are bonded" that means he has accepted her meaniing and agreed that they were "Mates" In the sense that it was for the long haul.

Tricky that word Mate. I always tookk it to mean that it was a lifetime joining of two.

Later in Bound t-Pol certainly laid it out on the line when she said "I want you to come back."

Never liked the writers having Trip gettiing a little revenge for her past treatment of him. Always thought he was a better man than that.

I guess I will have to look up "Mate" in the dictionary.

[WarpGirl]

Isn't that what I just said????

[Silverbullet]

Sorry, you are right. that is what you just said.

It is a little early in the morning here. I still have some cobwebs in my so called brain.

We are on the same page just not reading it at the same pace. I will try to keep up with you.

Okay, we have t-Pol finallly getting through to Trip on some level. But at the end of bound he walks off after saying that this thing betwen us is no big deal and "we have a lot of work to do."

I take that last statement to mean that they have a lot of work to do on thier relationship.

T-Pol look on her face shows puzzlement. She had just seemed to have convinced him that they were bound together and were "Mated" and he says that they have a lot of work to do on thier relationship. Doesn't compute.

[WarpGirl]

Actually I think it was the "No big deal" remark that didn't compute. MEN! I think T'Pol was fully aware that the relationship needed LOTS of work. A kiss does not make cultural differences and a complete inability to communicate on a personal and intimate level disappear. Trip is guilty of this too, I mean he told the MACO whore about Lizzy after what maybe 6 months of knowing her. T'Pol's known him for 3 years AND doing intimate nuropressure on him! WHAT IS THAT? Forget being Vulcan, as a HUMAN woman I'd give him a left hook that would knock him six ways from Sunday for that... So yes T'Pol knows it'a going to be a LONG hard road to get any kind of stability in this bonding. Too bad we never SAW any of it. They were still a mess in Demons! "I am sick of this bond." Really Trip could be a real MAN sometimes. Honestly, if I were Trip I'd hold off on the sex and give myself six month to actually court, and get my head on straight. T'Pol needs him to study the Kir'Shara with her and learn Vulcan. Basically, they need to actually date. Wipe away all of the assumptions and start a clean slate romantically. Rely more on their friendship than their hormones. Plenty of thime for that, just get stablized and talking first.

[Silverbullet]

I entirely agree that T-Pol should have invited Trip to join her in exploring the Surack text and helping him to learn vulcan. Actually, I once at night had a scenario where Trip asked Hoshi to come up with a program that he could learn Vulcan while asleep. that Phlox had come up with a arrangment that Trip could get a good nights sleep and still be learning vulcan.

anyway, Yup. Had Trip learned vulcan it would have been far better and helping t-Pol explore the Surack text would have helped Trip to undersand Vulcans far betteer.

Don't believ that Trip knew the Cole birtch very long perhaps a month or so. He was trying to get T-Pol out of his head. Doing that NP on cole was stupid on his part but he was probably doing it for the intimacy. He may have been wanting to get far closer to cole but a tad slower than Cole wanted.

Only good thing that came out of the cole/Tri p thing was that T-Pol was forced out in to the open. she had to let Trip know that he was spoken for, taken, off limits, out of bounds for any other female. So she Seduced him. As it has been said let the genie out of the bottle and could not put it back in although she tried the next morning.

Often wondered why Trip did not go back to Cole with his tail between his legs after T-Pol handed him his head on a platter that morning. cole probably would have been delighted that T-Pol had shoved Trip right into her arms and no competition out of T-Pol. She had after all burned her bridges behind her when she rippped Trip apart that morning.

[WarpGirl]

Well Cole was assigned to Enterprise when they left for the Expanse and Harbinger is somewhere in the six month range I think. I would think you would know why Trip didn't go back to her after the let down. But if I were a guy, that would make me swear off women for a while. Come to think of it if a man did that to me I'd swear off men maybe forever. Good thing I'm smart enough not to let that happen.

Trip isn't the only one with things to learn of course, T'Pol's human English, while slightly better than Trip's Vulcan English needs work. Also she's so convinced that she wouldn't be able to give Trip what he needs that she never really found out what his needs really are. Too many assumptions, and you know what they say about people who assume. T'Pol needs to learn that logic is 99% subjective to the individual and the situation. There is no such thing as uniform logic, just uniform principles to guide logic.

[Alelou]

Eh, personally I think a lot of their best communication is going to be nonverbal, body to body. Maybe that is what they decided to do after "Bound" -- try it without the sex. THAT would explain the resentment and tension. Talking doesn't solve everything, especially when you don't really speak the same language. Especially when one at least one party literally has no other way to express love.

[Silverbullet]

Trip might have gone back to cole because she stalked him. He helped of course but she was the agressor, that Kiss after the NP Trip gave her was a signal that she was after him. so, she could have provided a safe harbor for him while he licked his woulnds. It would have been a golden oportunity for cole. she could sooth him hold his head, flay t-Pol alive for him. He would be grateful and mistake gratitude for affection. Oh, cole would have had the whip hand. She could have wrapped up Trip and Hog tied him. He was vulnerable. He was hurt. He needed succor. she could provide alll of that. She may have been a tough MAACO but she was also a female and females forget the rule book when they fight. T-Pol had left the field to cole. Why shouldnt she take Trip gift wrapped. He ws a great prize. T-Pol threw him at cole and Cole would have just said thank you and kept Trip.

[WarpGirl]

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Especially when one at least one party literally has no other way to express love.

OK This is so NOT TRUE I can't even laugh it off. Vulcans DO express love. Do you think Amanda Greyson was only given love by Sarek in bed? Do you think the only time Tuvok and his wife only expressed love when having sex? That's absolutely the MOST crazy thing about Vulcans I have EVER "heard." T'Pol was expressing love for Trip just by doing nuropressure on him. Do you think she would have done it for Malcolm or Travis? NO WAY. OK maybe T'Pol would never say "I love you" in public, or hold hands, or kiss him in front of people who aren't family. But there are other ways to give love. She gives him unconditional support, she helps him grow and become a better man, and engineer. She CARES about him more than any other person in her life. To have your communication based on sex seems to me to be cheapening the whole relationship. They are much more than sex.

As for Cole ewwww don't go there.

[Silverbullet]

But Cole was the catalyst that sparked T-Pol. Cole gave her the reason to declare her love in one way.

Agreed that T_pol probabaly could not say "I love You" right away. but she should have realized at some point that Trip needed to hear her say that. Human males need a lttle ackowledgement that they are the only one and saying I love you (and only you) would have given him a great boost. those three little words mean a great deal especialy if uttered aloud. T-Pol has this vulcan face on all of the time she controls her body language as much as possible. what else would Trip have to go on except t-Pol voicing her love.

All right it may have been damned near impossibe for t-Pol to say it at first but after a while it would have come easier for her to a point wher she could say "I love you" easily, It was important to the man she loved he needed that assurance. Males do have fragile egos.

It would have been a sacrifice for t-Pol but so what she was sacrificing for Trip. god knows he sacrifieced plenty for her. His pride, His sanity at times, his manhood at other times since he took a lot of Crap out of her. She hurt him repeatedly and he came back again and again.

[panyasan]

Concerning Cole: her actions were typical of a women marking her territory, saying to T'Pol "Trip is my men." We don't know what Trip told her about Lizzie. Cole made it sound like they had become very close in a short time (telling things like "we have so much in common" and "he talks about his sister". T'Pol is clearly hurt by her remark.

Concerning Vulcans expressing love: I think also think that after Bound TnT tried to work out their relationship and that takes time and moving forward and set backs, frustration and joy. It must be overwhelming, very different and sometimes irritating for Trip. TnT could sense each other emotions on some level, thoughts, dreams on the show. Intimate ways of expressing your love. So T'Pol is capable of expressing love, but she does it a different way. The bond is in a way a tool for their relationship.

[Asso]

Concerning Cole: her actions were typical of a women marking her territory, saying to T'Pol "Trip is my men." We don't know what Trip told her about Lizzie. Cole made it sound like they had become very close in a short time (telling things like "we have so much in common" and "he talks about his sister". T'Pol is clearly hurt by her remark.

Concerning Vulcans expressing love: I think also think that after Bound TnT tried to work out their relationship and that takes time and moving forward and set backs, frustration and joy. It must be overwhelming, very different and sometimes irritating for Trip. TnT could sense each other emotions on some level, thoughts, dreams on the show. Intimate ways of expressing your love. So T'Pol is capable of expressing love, but she does it a different way. The bond is in a way a tool for their relationship.

Eh, but that kiss...

[WarpGirl]

I'm sure in time she'd say it very often to him. Just not in front of colleagues or strangers. Unless you believe they develop telepathy. In which case she could say it at any time and still have privacy. Anyway saying I love you isn't truly their real issue. The issue is they need to communicate about EVERYTHING in their lives not just feelings and sex. Neither of them built up a solid personal realtionship before she jumped him. If they're going to work out, they need to have more than just a psychic bond and good sexual compatibility. While both are important they don't build a life and a family together, there has to be more. They can't rely on sex for communication it's marriage suicide.

panyasan THANK YOU!!!!!!